Mach3 (or Quantum) - from Artsoft

[Gerald_D]

Mach(N) software runs under 32 bit Windows (XP or 2000) and outputs signals on the standard parallel printer port (LPT1 etc.)

Art Fenerty (in Canada) runs a website ArtOfCNC (http://www.artofcnc.ca/index.html) and a Yahoo discussion list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/messages). There is an effort to "modernise" the website and discussion group under www.machsupport.com (http://www.machsupport.com/) but there is a lot of resistance from the "old school"

[fabrica]

Your advice to us is to go in for mach3 software is it?

[Gerald_D]

Yup, Mach3 is the right one.

Mach2 is an old version
Mach4 has been cancelled

You don't need to "purchase" Mach3 immediately because the "freeware" version is okay to run a file with up to 1000 lines of G-code. The only extra thing you get when you purchase Mach3 is the freedom to run more lines. Otherwise everything is exactly the same. Mach3 does not arrive on a CD in a box with a book. Everything is downloaded via the internet, and you already have access to the whole of the Mach3 product (except being able to run more than 1000 lines)

[fabrica]

Will not being able to have more than 1000 lines be a hindrance to our operations. I would like to do kitchen cabinets,signs and carvings.

[Gerald_D]

As soon as you say "signs" then you need lots of lines..... (even in 2D)

http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/28/2047.gif

The letter "a" in the MechMate logo needs 85 lines, the whole word MechMate has 351 lines. If you write a program that cuts just the word MechMate out of 25mm thick board and you have a 6mm diam tool making passes of 6mm deep at a time then 1000 lines is not enough....

[Greg Waggy]

Gerald, this is very true but the 1000 lines will let you know if it'll perform the tasks you require of the software. That's all I was saying. Besides, $150.00 USD is a lot cheaper than other programs that don't do as much. And don't forget it has a CAM program with it for generating your tool paths.

I am like you though, I think it's a work in progress and not completely bug free but then so is Windoes (any version) and look what you have to pay to be a beta tester for Microsoft. HA HA

[Gerald_D]

Yup, the $150 is extremely good value for money. But, if you don't have $150 yet, don't let that be an excuse for not learning to use the "program". You can get started right now and you are not at any disadvantage over someone who has already paid.

Folk must realise though that Mach3 is not a polished product with glossy manuals. New revisions and bug fixes are issued more than once a day at times! It is the hobby of Art Fenerty and his group of volunteers. There is nothing else like it, so fasten seatbelts and enjoy the ride...http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/happy.gif

[Greg Waggy]

Then there's (off topic - sorry) TurboCNC that is totally free, but no CAM software.

Art is darn good with support and bug fixes as they are reported. Heck, he'll even answer private email faster than most true commercial companies will. Also allows wish lists and who knows, one of these days he'll expand the program for more functions.

On the standard printer port you can run 6 functions and MACK allows for the use of 2 ports, that's could open up the program to control 12 functions from one PC. What would you do with all that control?

[Mike Richards]

If you add a little 'glue-logic TTL' to the project, those 6-lines can be multiplied. Two lines become four, three lines become eight, four line become sixteen, five lines become thirty-two and six lines become sixty-four. Granted, my little example would only allow one line out of sixty-four to be active at at time, but using a combination of address lines, latch lines, input lines and output lines, you can do a lot with six lines. It's the same princile that allows a microprocessor chip to address 65,535 locations with only sixteen address lines and three or four control lines.

Mach 3 is an excellent program. It's the only low cost program that I like.

[Greg Waggy]

Mike,

I'm wondering about the possibility of running 12 functions from one PC and now you're pointing out that 10's of thousands could be operated. HA HA What all would you operate? I guess you could have several CNC machines all running from one PC, all doing different jobs?

[Patrick Toomey]

Maybe the mother of all tool changers?

[Greg Waggy]

Patrick, I'm not sure but I think a tool changer only requires 2 functions, one to release/hold the tool in the chuck and one to rotate to the proper tool in the holder. I may be wrong. It won't be the first time.

[Patrick Toomey]

I think they usually have their own controllers and communicate via a serial or parallel line using their own protocols. But you're right, they don't need a line per tool or anything like that. I did think of another use for all those addresses, though, Christmas lights for the 'bot! You could have a couple of thousand addressable lights on there and have them blink in time with the file you're cutting, and then sync them with Bill Young's program that plays music using the sounds from the stepper motors. http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/biggrin.gif The only trouble with that is that if you have a decent controller with Mach, the motors don't make noise anymore so no music.

[Gerald_D]

Mach3 can also run via USB to the Gecko G100 and then you have lots more inputs/outputs than the constraints of old parallel ports.

[Greg Waggy]

Gerald, Will the G100 drive servo motors?

[Gerald_D]

The G100 is not a "driver" as such - it creates the step direction pulses for other drivers and the type of motor is invisible to the G100.

[Greg Waggy]

OH, so it's like the breakout board for the drivers/controllers.

[Gerald_D]

Yeah, but this "breakout board" has onboard brains and relieves the PC of a huge chunk of processing.

[Gerald_D]

Mach3 is being polished and sealed as a final product, while "Quantum" is rising as its replacement. Keep an eye on the Mach forums (a (http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=93ffae19d221e08c200ad61b3b31cd 98&board=44.0), b (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/messages)) if you want more info. Here (http://custom-cnc.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=b1ee8b64be725793ae51b88ce80bf6 de&topic=56.0) is a prelim report from Gary Beckwith.

[reza forushani]

(this originally posted elsewhere)

Great. Now, how do I tell Mach that I want two x-axis instead of one and to turn them in different directions?

[Gerald_D]

Set up a "slave" axis (Config) to turn two motors in sync. To change any motor's direction swop the wires of ONE coil at the Gecko. Eg, swop black & yellow around.

[reza forushani]

I remeber somewhere you said we needed to set up Mach3 for Mechmate but can't find it. Is there anything special we need to do or set up in Mach3 like speeds, factors, etc

[Gerald_D]

There is plenty to set up. The best source of info for this is www.machsupport.com (http://www.machsupport.com). Suggest you start with the videos (http://www.machsupport.com/videos.htm) and look at: Downloading and Installing, Hooking up Inputs and Outputs, Troubleshooting Mach3.

[fabrica]

Gerald, Do you think that it is worthwhile to switch over to Quantum at the moment. They say that for Shopbot type machines, big improvements on cutting quality could be achieved specially when it comes to corner cuttings due to smoother accelarations and de-accelarations.

[Gerald_D]

Fabrica, I am extremely conservative when it comes to "upgrading" software. We still run Mach3 version 1.87 from about a year ago. It is stable, and it does the job. Our machines are running nearly constantly with tight deadlines (typically the customers know thay get next-day delivery) and the boards loaded onto the machines are big & expensive. Therefore we cannot risk experimenting with new software that might be better, and is not oficially launched or supported.

Your situation is different, you can still test one against another. When I hear guys like you saying the new software is safe, then we might try it over a holiday period.

[fabrica]

Ok Gerald I will give it a try and let you know when I get a chance of doing it.

[Mike Richards]

Does anyone have some code fragments to share showing I/O control? After 18 months playing with Mach 3, I finally added a couple of extra contactors and some Opto-22 G4 I/O modules to turn those contactors on/off. I can't seem to find any examples that show how to use I/O, so I've just assigned the 'Mist' output control to pin 16 on my PMDX-122 board and the 'Flood' output control to pin 14 on the PMDX.

These lines of code work, but it seems a little unsophisticated:

% Turn on output #3, pin 14
M7
% Prompt operator to flip the safety switch
( ... Turn on Contactor #1 ... )
M0
( ... Pausing 2 seconds ... )
G4 P2000
G0 Z0.2500
( )
...

% Turn on output #2, pin 16
M8
% Prompt operator to flip the safety switch
( ... Turn on Contactor #2 ... )
M1
G4 P2000
( ... Pausing 2 seconds ... )
G0 X19.6875 Y2.1875
( )

...

% Turn outputs OFF
M9

[Gerald_D]

We only use the M3 & M5 to start & stop the spindle.

[Greg J]

Mike,
I understand. Thanks.

This may not be the appropriate thread (or forum for that matter), but, I'm reading the manuals for Mach3, PMDX-122 and the Gecko G203V. The Mach3 wants settings for the Motor Outputs configuration. The step and dir pin #'s are self-explanatory. I don't understand the lowactive checkmark for the step and dir. I understand the meaning of lowactive, and Gecko's require an active-lo signal (I think). Where does the BOB come into play since it's between the parallel port and the gecko drivers.

Do I want "LowActive" for step and dir in Mach3 ?

[Richards]

Greg,
When you use the G203 stepper drivers, on the PMDX-122, place the JP1 jumper on pins 2 and 3 to select common ground. You need to tell Mach 3 to send the step and direction pulses Active-HIGH because you are sourcing the signals. That means that the normal state of the signal, when it is off, is LOW or near ground potential. When the signal goes high, it is sourcing current and is active.

The BOB buffers the signals from the parallel port to the G20x stepper drivers. It does NOT invert the signals. The state of the signal (high or low) is passed directly to the G20x.

(The confusing part of this is that for those using the G201 or the G202, do just the opposite. Set JP1 jumper to pins 1 and 2 and set Mach 3 to be Active-LOW. The G201 and G202 sink current, so their normal off state is at 5V and their on state is at 0V.)

By the way, Greg, you're coming along a lot faster than I did when I first tried my hand at electronics.

[Greg J]

Thanks Mike,

That makes perfect sense.

As for me picking this stuff up fast ... well .... its just fun. Its bad when you go to bed thinking about all this and wake up at 0500 without the alarm wanting to read a manual.

Coffee's ready, got some reading.

Again, thanks.
Greg

[Marc Shlaes]

This exchange of posts appeared on the Gecko forum!

In a couple of months, MACH will be in new hands.

Read on!

[In geckodrive@yahoogroups.com (geckodrive@yahoogroups.com), Art Fenerty <fenerty@... (fenerty@...)> wrote:

Hi Marris,
LOL , I just read the rumour,

( deleting the message still leaves it on many of our inboxes ) ,
just so people do know without any rumour, and with your permission to put this message here...
I will be retiring on Jan1 / 2008 to follow my nose and explore the many interesting things Ive learned and have seen since I started 6 years ago to write a program for myself to use in artistic expression. :)

ArtSoft will continue with new proprieters , users will be well taken care of, and while Im retiring from all this, Ill still be around, only now I can bitch as a user, not a developer. This has been in planning for almost a year, so Im pretty sure of the successfull continuance of ArtSoft and that everyone will be very well taken care of. I suspect other developers can understand how draining the years have been, and now , with over 10,000 users, Mach3 has become a standard.. and a demanding mistress. Something that needs a periodic infusion of fresh ideas, and youthfull enthusiasm to continue its path. There is a post on the Mach3 group explaining my going away, so I wont bog Mariss's bandwidth, other than to say its been a great experience doing all this, and Im proud to have left my mark on an industry just leaving its infancy I think, and learning from the Guru's like Mariss has been a joy...

But Ill still be seen poking my nose in and occasionally donating some plugin or code to all the other users..like myself.. :) ..now that Ill actually have time to myself.. wow, thatll be weird...

back to being a basement mad scientist...

Thanks,
Art
www.artofcnc.ca (http://www.artofcnc.ca)


Then Mariss Freimanis of Geckodrive replied:

I'm flabbergasted, envious and enormously happy for you all at the same time! I'm flabbergasted because I cannot imagine who will ever fill your shoes. I'm envious because every year I say "Just another two years and I retire". I am happy for you for having the good sense to know when to start enjoying the rest of your life. You have made a mark that few others can hope to equal; Mach3 is the runaway success story of the last decade. At heart what you humbly call artistic expression is a labor of love and it separates the magnificent from the mundane. Mach3, your work, has certainly achieved magnificence.[/font]
I hope sometime in the future, I get the opportunity to meet you in person. That will be a rare and fine pleasure.

[smreish]

I purchased a site license yesterday from CNC4PC and I can't get to the Mach3 homepage or any support pages to D/L the software. Is the site available to anyone else?
Sean

[Marc Shlaes]

No, but I wouldn't panic. Probably a small problem. Give it some time.

[Gerald D]

This is the downloads page:

http://www.machsupport.com/artsoft/downloads/downloads.htm

It is working now.

We are still using Mach3 Release 1.84.002 (one of the "Release Lockdown"s)

[BernardR]

I have recently returned to the CNC scene after an absence of a couple of years. I converted a Bridgeport size import to 4 axis servo motor control under Mach 2.

I find it amazing just how far Art Fennerty has taken the whole field of CNC; however what I am bringing to the people on this forum is the potential for much smoother control than is currently available for MechMate and Shop Bot style machines.

Quantum is another product from Art, I believe in colaboration with Brian Barker, it is downloadable and operational, but currently is not officially supported.
I copied the following excerpt from one of Art's write ups.
'The difference you will notice is highly dependent on the system. Shopbot style systems will see a huge smoothing effect when its setup properly tuned to their system. '
The full forum can be reached at the following url.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?board=44.0

Art also gives a video explanation:
http://www.machsupport.com/Videos/Mach3%20Video%20Selections/Mach3%20Video%20Selections.html

At the present time there will probably be few people here who can take advantage of quantum, but I thought it might be very useful if Gerald had the time and inclination to have a look at it. In the longer term I get the feeling that the program will give much better smoothing of some of steppers that Gerald rightly had some reservations about.

[BernardR]

URL correction

The video explanation link I posted earlier leads to the page of Video selections, but loads the first video. The one for Quantum is found on the list on the left edge and is called QuantumPlanner, and I believe explains the problems and the proposed solution very well.

[Gerald D]

Bernard, Quantum was mentioned in this thread (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218) about a year ago. Somehow the excitement of it has died - unless something happened while I was away?

[BernardR]

Gerald, the reason I brought the matter up was that reading through several posts it did appear that there are several people who sound as if they could use the help of Quantum, and also having just viewed Art's video and several recent posts on the Mach3 site, I thought it was worth a mention.

[Gerald D]

Here is an interesting exchange on the Mach Yahoo forum. Brian Barker, who picked up the reins from the retired Art Fenerty, replies to Ozzie:

> Is there a published list of development priorities or what's being
> worked on at present.
Nope and there will not be a list.... We are working on bugs as we find
them and cleaning up the code... there are no "new" things being added
and I do update the list to tell you what I worked on for each rev.
>
> I've monitored most of what's gone on from almost the advent of Mach 1
> to about 9 months ago. I'm sure my license is one of the earlier ones.
> I still occasionally skim a few pages of this forum to see what is
> going on, but a good deal of what's going on is not really new.

I would say that other then cleaning up the code the software is done
and will not have much of anything added to it... This is why there
will not be a list of what we are working on....

>
> For a hobbiest like me Mach 3 seems to have reached a level of maturity.

I think you are right! It has grown to the point that I don't think
there are anymore things that need to be added..

>
> So it would be great if we had an overview of what the development
> team is working on. I know to those busy developing, this is just a
> request that would slow down the important work they're doing. But
> perhaps there is someone close to the project but not really working
> on it day to day who might give us an update, say quarterly; Maybe,
> ,,,,,,,ART??????

If Art would like to tell you what he is playing with that is cool :) On
my side if I make it so you think I have not changed anything I have
done my job... I am in cleanup mode :)

Thanks
Brian

[Marc Shlaes]

As a former product manager for a significant piece of software, I say that Brian's response is very ominous.

If that means that he intends to put Mach in permanent maintenance mode while he and a team bring out the next new thing (perhaps not parallel port based), he certainly isn't saying that.

Frankly his response gives me very little confidence.

[Richards]

Mach 3 has been very stable for me for more than a year. Parallel adapter cards are readily available for normal desk-top type computers (for those newer computers that don't have a parallel port built in). I've tried several parallel adapter cards in my test-bench units and have had no problems of any kind.

Whether Mach software continues to evolve should not be a great concern to those of us who use the current version. It works just fine as it is.

[Gerald D]

I welcome Brian's response. Mach3 (Mill) already has far too much in it for woodwork routing. The curious thing is that there was no mention of Quantum.

[Gerald D]

The discussion continued:

Question:
Brian, in this discussion vein. Can you offer any rough idea's as to future
version's of Mach. I know Art had mentioned about this time last year that "Q"
would be the next big thing and this would entail a complete re-write from the
ground up, of Mach. Things like 5 axis interpolation/offsets would also be
included.

Anyway, just thought I'd ask.. having S curving with the rest of Mach's
attributes would be great!

Brian's reply:
I would like to take the next 6 months and just keep fixing small bugs
and cleaning up the code. Art had been working VERY hard for 6 years and
never got the chance to do this and if we are going to add anything more
to the code it must be done. Mach3 is very robust at this time and we
would like to make it better :) There are 5-6 small bugs that have
plagued us over time and I would like to see them gone!

Q will get worked on after Mach3 is finished as it is the base for
Quantum.. As you can tell we are not looking for any big jumps at this
time :)

[Greg J]

Gerald,

Thanks for the updates.

Maybe it's just the damn Engineer in me, but this is good reading.

[J.R. Hatcher]

Does anyone know what pin # is used to turn on the router relay in Mach 3? I guess what I need is the entire deal about how to do it.

[Gerald D]

I think it is pin 1. (See table 17 of PMDX-122 manual)

In Mach3, ports & pins, Output Signals, I have Output #1 enabled to port 1, pin 1.

Check if M03 in the G-code turns it on and M05 turns it off. My memory is rusty on this.

[J.R. Hatcher]

Thanks Gerald. I'll check it out.

[Doug_Ford]

J.R.

That's one of my projects for this weekend too. If I figure it out, I'll post something.

[Gerald D]

JR, I think you are looking to make the green tick, plus add 1 and 1 as port and pin, on this screen:

782

And I think that is all there is to it - the relay will then respond on the M03/M05 commands

[J.R. Hatcher]

I'll try it Sunday and let you know. Thanks

[Doug_Ford]

J.R.,

I found some pretty good instructions for basic setup of the program at http://www.machsupport.com/documentation/

If you download the basic setup of Mach3Mill, it discusses setting the ports and pins for the charge pump and the relay you are using to control your router. Good luck with it.

[J.R. Hatcher]

Downloaded!! Thanks Doug.

[Greolt]

Just to add to Gerald's post above

Also the second part of setting the spindle control is on "Spindle Control" page.

Make sure "Disable Spindle Relays" is not checked. Set Clockwise to output 1.

Set the delays you need in "General Parameters"

Greg

[Gerald D]

Greg, thanks very much for posting that page - I completely forgot about it :o:o

That is the page where you say the router/spindle is controlled from Output #1.

On the page I showed earlier, is where you say that pin number 1 (to which the relay is soldered on the PMDX) shall be designated as Output #1.

(Could of course have #2 etc., but then both pages must correspond)

[CNCGuy]

Your manufacturer should give you a configuration file like a driver.. Unless you use a DIY..

also there are a great set of tutorial videos. I've watched them a few times. http://www.machsupport.com/videos/