Cutting Gears on Two MechMates! #38 & #130 - Parnu, Estonia

[ifffff]

After reading this forum trough couple times i started to build my MechMate too.
Cutting area will be ca 3400*2100. It will be with big indexer something like that yellow maschine picture in this thread : http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314
Now is all steel arrived and some welding job done. Motors, gears, gear racks, and rollers arrived. Tomorrow should be here smoothstepper board and breakout boards. Spindle, VFD, drivers and cable chains are ordered.
One motor isnt missing its on turner who makes on gears shaft and key holes
Some pictures too:

[sailfl]

Ivo,

Looks like you have a great start. Welcome

[Robert M]

Good luck with your build.
I see this valley for an indexer....I'll see you soon with my version too !
Wishing you a smooth sailing ;)

[domino11]

Welcome IVO,
Best of luck on your build. :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Good luck with the build of your MM, but don't let the restoration of the motorbikes take a dip...Otherwise send them to me and I will work on them.;)

[reidcd]

Shouldn’t you finish the Ural bike first . I have one and my wife won’t let start the Mechmate until its up and running

[ifffff]

This bike isnt Ural its K-750. Badly i must sell both bikes to complete MechMate. Sad, but sometimes need set prioritys.

[ifffff]

Started to cut down rails. I made skate from piece of MDF, but looks that it isnt very good idea burr is abrasive and it goes too quick thinner:mad:. Today gonna think something else out
Good news are that smoothstepper and breakout boards arrived.

[Gerald D]

Are you using a Pferd cutting disk, 1mm thick, type EHT 115-1,0 A 60 R SG-INOX/22,23 (page 41 from Catalogue 206 (PDF, 7,82 MB) (http://www.rueggeberg.com/html_e/download/catalogues/catalogue206-grinding-cut-off-wheels.pdf))?

[ifffff]

No its Grinding 1,6mm thick. I know that 1mm is better but i have those free :)

[ifffff]

Looks like simple thing are better just putted bolts on and surfaced on side of main beam and done it is after some hour and 5 disks :)

[Doug_Ford]

Was it stable enough?

[ifffff]

Yes it is. First cut is most important later flute holds disk little.

[ifffff]

Aftel lots of welding, grinding and drilling its taking shape :). Frame is bolted on because my shop havent so large doors if i maybe later want move it.

[sailfl]

Ivo,

Interesting table design. You rectangle you have on the right side, is that for an indexer?

[ifffff]

Yes its for indexer. I havent thinked out yet how to made indexer base. Has anyone ideas?

[javeria]

Make it out of 2 C channels with a space in between where you can tighten the movable end,

[ifffff]

For now car and cantry are rolling and im starting tomorrow rebolt it and painting.
Making indexer base of 2 C channels is bad idea for me because its very hard find those what are ideally straight and have both sides 90 degree angles. But i have one idea. I thougt put on both sides on indexer valley 60*40 rectangular tubes and on them MDF strips. Then i surface them with MM and i get ideal staight base for plate what has on it holding centre for indexer job. And if MDF wears down too much its easy replace it too. What do you guys thinh about that idea??
Some pictures too.

[ifffff]

Just another idea. Is any disadvantages to use as limit switches hall effect sensors? They are a lot cheaper than proximity sensors.

[domino11]

One of the guys here built a Mechmate for indexer work and he used hall effect sensors. Check out Art's site Turning Around (http://www.turningaround.org/MechMate/Mechmate.htm)

[Gerald D]

For Hall efffect sensors, you need to mount magnets as the targets. That means that you will not be able to detect if the gantry or y-car jumps off the rails.

Using MDF strips, that are cut with the machine, before further assembly is probably a good idea. But I don't quite understand your description and sketch to see the purpose of this strip?

[ifffff]

Gerald, purpose of those strips is get ideally base for plate what holds centre of woodpiece i havent now time to make better sketch. But on that i havent thought that proxymity sensor can "see" this too if car or cantry jumps. Look like proximity sensor 1:0 hall effect sensor :D

[ifffff]

Meanwhile its starting to get blue. Its industrial epoxy paint. I hope it will last long. But damn its a messy job.

[Robert M]

Nice….
I also like V-much you’re little brace design for your valley bracing. It’s very inspiring as I too am in the progress with my build ( kitchen project only at this time but….soon on the metal part !).
Best of luck ;)

[leholaaser]

JUHUU EESTALASED(...eem eestlane) ON NÜÜD KA MÄNGUS :D :D
Edu jõudu ja jaksu.

[ifffff]

Tänan, jõudu ja jaksu läheb vaja. Paksu rahakotti ka. On sul ka plaanis ehitama hakata?

[leholaaser]

Tulevikus kindlasti on plaan selline sinine koll ehitada, kuid rahakott ja aeg seavad hetkel omad piirangud. Hetke plaan on teha üks väiksem ja lihtsam, et selle cnc värigindusega tutvust teha ja praeguseks hetkeks olen hästi väheke mänginud juba linuxipõhise "EMC2" kontrolltarkvaraga ja paari CAD rakendusega.
Kas sa saad ütelda kui palju sul praeguse hetkeni on raha läniud erinevatele komponentidele ja mis tööga muul ajal tegeled :P ?

[ifffff]

Raha on praeguseks kulutatud ca 60-70K asja päris valmis saamiseks tuleb veel investeerida ca 30K. Kindlasti saab odavamalt aga plaanis on teha masin mis hakkab tööle iga päev, niiet komponentide valikul olen lähtunud pigem vastupidavuse printsiibist kui odavusest.
Juhtprogrammi valikul soovitan vaadata Mach3 poole.

[leholaaser]

üks asi mis tulevaste cnc projektide juures kindel on emc2, see vist rohkem maitse asi(mulle lihtsalt meeldib avatud tarkvara) :).
Kas sa kasutad/hakkad kasutama spetsiaalseid lineraalrlaagreid või tavalisele kuullaagrile peal tehtud hülsse?

[leholaaser]

A quick translation for those who cant understand estonian wery well :D:

: Yupee estonian are in the game, good luck and other wishes
---------------
Thanks, i allso need a a lot of money in your wallet , do you plan building one yourself?
-------------
in the future I definitely plan building one, time and money make teir limitis at the moment, th eplan is to make a smaller and cheaper one to familiarize myself with cnc. i have played with EMC2 a little and wit some cad applications. Can you tell me how much have you spent on components?
-------------
Money has been spent about 60 000-70 000 EEK, and to finish ity up another 30k is needed. I have preferred quality over price.
as the motion controll software i would reccomend MACH3.
-----
One thing with future cnc projects is certaint that they will be driven by EMC2, its mo a matter of taste(i do like open source).
Are you going to use special v-bearing or sleeves over normal bearings?
-----

[Claudiu]

Hi Ivo

That is a good looking build!
I also thought about an integrated Indexer, your approach is definitely a good one.

Show me more...:)
Greetings

[ifffff]

Some pictures meanwhile. Looks like i bended one cable chain carrier wrong, but let it is - works so too. For indexer valley i made closing plate for that if i need bigger flat table.

[Robert M]

Nothing like moving on and no time wasted, but in your case, you’re speeding up…. Nicely !
Nice progress Ivo, looking forward to see it in action !.....what, maybe by Sunday ?? :D

[ifffff]

Maybe on sunday, but not on this sunday yet. Need to build Z axis. Im making it on linear rails. On weekend i plan finish sketching it and make metal work.

[ifffff]

For now Z axis is almost done. When i get water cooling system http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1160&ID=1618need build place for it. Then need search gas spring and make painting job.

[ifffff]

Hmmmm or this??? http://uk.thermaltake.eu/product_info.aspx?PARENT_CID=C_00000402&id=C_00000403&name=BigWater+745&ov=n&ovid=It has 3 times bigger cooling.

[Gerald D]

Nice progress!

[javeria]

Certainly a very nice Z axis design!

[jhiggins7]

Looking good Ivo.:)

How much Z axis travel will you have?

[ifffff]

Z axis travel is about 50cm.

[ifffff]

Today i was cutting on plasma table what i have built. Was windy day and sometimes power from grid is waving. Not so much that it goes off but enough to shut down computer and ruined cutting job two times. So came on my head idea to add on system UPS (about 1000VA) what poweres computer and drivers-steppers. Idea is on that little power waving can cause computer shutdown and maybe loosed steps, but if plasma unit (on mechmate spindle) is unpowered about second - two it fires itself again or dont loose fire at all. On mechmate is possible make so if is small power loss and main relay opens it stops feeding and spindle goes up to safe z. Has anyone done it and some advice on that idea?

One picture of this plasma too, havent made pictures now its made on summer when was doing wiring job. Control box later moved off to separate it electrically to maschine. Plasma causes lot-lot of electrical noise. I built it for one metalworking company just before started my own mechmate.

[ifffff]

For now its cutting:) I replaced spindle to cheap router because spindle VFD what i had was faulty, and replacing it takes about 2 or 3 weeks. It cuts nice and smooth. Only this router is noisy, water cooled spindle is much-much quieter. But looks lihe i need to order Mechmate stickers.
To finally complete i need to end wiring job, sensors, puchbuttons etc. dont work yet. And then start build indexer axis.
One picture of one test job too. Its made on my friend picture. G-code is made with Artcam.Tool was 6mm ball nose and stepover 0,7mm

[Gerald D]

Well done Ivo! You are now in the "älready cutting" section of the forum

Why the square hole in the head? :)

[domino11]

Looks like it could be an ear. :)

[buibui]

Congratulations, Ivo! I like the plasma too...did you adapt the Mechmate design?

[ifffff]

:D:D No its not ear. Just hasnt more uncutted mdf, and thought that hole will be cutted over but didnt. On plasma yes main beams and crossover beams are adapted on Mechmate design. But damn i think that router will not last so long if i get fixed VFD back, started today already making little unusual noise, but still working.

[ifffff]

Finally i got today stickers. And it looks with them nicer then i thought :D.
On Z axis temporary tied little anvil because router is lighter then spindle and Z axis was loosing steps sometimes when making down moves

[Gerald D]

Hi Ivo, yes that looks quite smart! And you have serial number 37.

[domino11]

Congratulations Ivo! :)

[Castone]

Good job Ivo! Looks great !

[ifffff]

Gerald should not be serial number 38? In builders log i already see number 37.

[jhiggins7]

Gerald,

Yep, Ivo is right. Bill of Weiser, Idaho has Serial #37.

[Gerald D]

Oops, make that #38 then! :o

[jhiggins7]

Ivo,

Congratulations on your build and Serial #38!:)

Here is the Updated Builder's Log (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AttqjIPMBEXKcExveGc4d3U0V25zQmMyX1U1eUVhU Xc&hl=en).

Please let me know of any changes to your entry that you would like to make.

I'm anxious to see you put the "indexer notch" to work.

[domino11]

Gerald,
There must be too many now if you are starting to lose track of the numbers. :)

[Gerald D]

Bear in mind that most people finish and post their pictures late at night after a hard day's work. But because most are to the west of me, I am already asleep. And then, at about 5am when I look at the forum for the first time, and am STILL asleep, I get confronted with keeping track of numbers! :o

[ifffff]

Here are pictures first bigger job what i had done with mechmate. Its kayak model for making molds. It was very messy job. After it was done i collected in my shop about 800 litres styrofoam dust :D. Cutter wad made from 12mm HSS metal drill bit, because it looks so that HSS cuts foam much better than HM bits.

[Gerald D]

Very impressive!

Any problems with the dust in the gear racks or in the v-rollers?

[ifffff]

Yes there was at beginnig pretty big problem with dust. Gear on Y axis collected so much dust that gear started jump over rack teeth. On pictures you can see dust protectors improved from cardboard and air tube what blows dust away. With X and Z axis wasnt problems. V rollers can handle dust very nice, they press it together and it falls down.

[hennie]

Ivo , I like what you did! making one of those is on my bucket list:)

[reidcd]

Impressive . Would love to make one myself . How long did it take to complete the milling ? Where did you get the files ?

[ifffff]

Total milling time was about 30-40 hours, dont know exactly it. I didnt make et for me own its job for kayak manufacturing company they gived file.

[ifffff]

In christmas time i started building dust system. For now is blower ready. Pictures:

[javeria]

Ivo - don't constrain the outlet of the blower like that with a hole, use a sheet metal transition for that.

[mikefoged]

What about the intake hole, that look way to small. My blower intake is Ø200mm all the way to the Cyclon. from the Cyclon to the hose Ø100, and the hose is Ø60. See Pic (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5359&stc=1&d=1247948654)

[ifffff]

First bigger problem showed up. 12 core signal cable is broken. Its TKD ÖPVC-JZCY http://www.tkd-gruppe.de/index.php?module=itevoCORE&func=viewPub&pt_name=tkdCABLEDATA&p_id=6&q=%C3%B6pvc I took it off from chain and cable is gnarly. Looks like cores are moved inside and then when cable chain and axis are moving core are just pulled broken. Cable chain has 75mm bending radius. When i bought it i didnt look producer website for recommendations about minimum bending radius, but looks like here in chain thread http://mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498told 75mm bending radius is too small. Now im worried about motor and spindle cables. If they broke it may cause driver/VFD damage. Damn looks like i have quite big problem here.
Tomorrow i take pictures.
Has anyone else had same problem?

[riesvantwisk]

Ivo,

I am planning to build exactly like that. What motor size (HP) are you using and what size impeller?

Ries

[ifffff]

Impeller is 400mm, but i need look for this blower new motor because its identification plate was unreadable and i thought its 2900 rpm motor,but its 1450 rpm and it doesnt suck enough. motor for that size impeller should be about 3 HP

[KenC]

Ivo, nice job.did you build the impeller?
You can make a 1:2 step up belt pulley to achieve your desired speed. not necessary to replace the motor.

[ifffff]

Its easyer to get new motor as build belt drive:D No i didnt build it, i got motor and impeller from my friend. Its cost was sixpack beer.

[digger]

Nice reading regarding dust collectors:
http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?t=4767&highlight=Static+Pressure+Resistance

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?t=4797&highlight=phase

[ifffff]

Meanwhile in Estonia.... Started building belt reduction.
Like all guys with direct drive i have problems with rough cutting in diagonal. While cutting wood or MDF it isnt big problem - couple wipes with sandpaper and its ok, but one regular job is making ATV skid plates from PE sheets - there cant fix that so.
Now i have all parts and i hope that have in this weekend so much time to put it all together.
Here is gallery of some jobs what i have done http://vigurpuit.ee/gallery

[ifffff]

Belt reduction is now complete and working.
At first picture is shown difference of cutting quality. One is cutted before installing belt reduction and second with belt reduction. Impressive:)

[smreish]

...Pretty amazing how a little 3:1 or higher gear box makes a huge difference. Thank you for the picture data

[KenC]

Impressive! Love your profiled reduction assembly plates. Why straight when we can have curves... beautiful.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi Ivo, mind sharing the dxf for those nice curved gearboxes ? They are looking PROFESSIONAL... well done

[ifffff]

Here are dxf drawings of my version of gearbox for mechmate. It is 4:1. Bearings for it are 61902.
Tooth gears are: 72 teeth 15-5M (aluminium) and smaller 18 teeth 15-5M (steel)
Belt is 425mm 15-5M
All bolts M6

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thank's Ivo, now maybe I will go gearbox also...this one is so SEXY...:D

[Kobus_Joubert]

I opened the files with Coreldraw and Vectric V-Carve pro and notice that on both programs the washer does not fit on the back or front plate...maybe it's something with these programs that change it when you import it.

[ifffff]

Here are some videos what i uploaded to youtube
PE-HWU 8 mm machining (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fs8Pe_TrZQ)
Styrofoam machining (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY9LHr8zC1E)
Machining aluminium AW5754 (AlMg3) 4mm sheet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB61Ww5q8vs)
Cutting that alu sheet is still a headache for me. Today i tried to cut it with 4mm one flute plastic cutters.(bits for alu will arrive tomorrow) Results at end of day are 5 broken bits and lots of knowledge. Best results for cutting it is to cut it with one pass. Plunge need to do with ramping moves 10mm lenght and ramp angle 10 degrees. It need to do not for it that bit dont cut trough but because if i do straight plunge then chips will not start to fly away and result is jammed and broken bit. Spindle rpm are 15000 and feedrate 800mm/min. At video is feedrate 1000mm/min, but as can hear there cutter will scream too much- result vibration and broken bit. Tomorrow i will try with special alu bits i hope that they will work.

[KenC]

Ivo, thanks for the file, your design is just too sexy to pass... :D

[Kobus_Joubert]

Ken did you check to see if the WASHER fit when you open it on your programs ?

[KenC]

Kobus, They look fit well enough to me.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thank's must be the conversion from DXF into my programs. But I fixed it manually already.

[ifffff]

Tried lot different combinations of cutting aluminium atv skid plates. Seems that best is spindle 18000 rpm feedrate 1000mm/min and 2mm depht per pass. What do you think guys is it normal that tool lifetime is about 2-3 sheets cutting, then it brokes. ( its about 200-300 meters cutting lenght?)

[Regnar]

Ivo,

Your spindle rpm seems a little high for you speeds and feed. For a 6mm endmill you will want a 4 mm cut at 1800mm per a minute. This calculation is for a 2 flute HSS endmill.

Router and High Speed spindle guys are always going to have a problem with heat due to rpms. I have a feeling your are cutting your chips as well. If your spindle can handle the side pressure you want your chips to look like small flakes. No dust looking chips.

Here is a free program that will take all your information and give you a speed and feed calculation for you cutters. It takes in deflection and chatter and a type of machine. It has a few other useful things in it. http://cnccookbook.com/CCGWizardv6.html

[KenC]

4mm seems a very deep cut at 1800mm/min
but I've yet cut any AL with my MM. Until I gain more info & confident. I'll be watchin such discussion with a keen eye.

[ifffff]

Russel i have one flute endmill, that makes almost same chipload at 1000mm/min as you said 1800mm/min at two flutes. I have on that speed/feedrate no dust. And chips are "normal" and hot

[Regnar]

Ivo, you are in the right area then. Are you doing anything for cooling? Is it cutting good one moment and then it turns bad and snap? Can you see if any aluminum is welded to the cutting edge?


Ken those speeds and feeds are what is recommended for getting the most out of the bit with the least amount of deflection. After that its a matter of what the machine can handle. To give you an Ideal of what it should look like in a almost perfect world check out this video http://www.glacern.com/index.php?page=video_index&video=1&video_name=crash_course_mill_08

[ifffff]

I have no cooling. Aluminium is welded minimal. Looks like bits going to broke because its material tires, not because it wears down and dont cut anymore then starts jamming and brokes.

[ifffff]

Sounds weird, but looks like i got bad set of bits. Yesterday arrived second shipment and i cutted with one bit 6 sheets of alu. That is 12 hours cutting.

[ifffff]

And final truth of cutting alu 5754 sheets is totally different as discussed before... I moved from 4mm bits to 5mm bits because they are stronger and dont broke so easy and give better results.

Final cutting data:
5mm one flute endmill (20 degrees spiral angle)
Spindle 20000 rpm
Ramping plunge (10 deg ramp angle 10mm ramp lenght) feedrate 1500mm/min
Cutting feedrate 2000mm/min

I was cutting 4mm sheets and cutting depht inside contures 2mm per pass and outside contures 1,33 mm per pass. Outside i was cutting less with one pass because sheets arent always ideally straight and if cutter takes more than 2mm it goes to resonance and it may broke.

Some pictures too:

[smreish]

Expertly done.
Looks like racing car seat backs.....nice!

[Regnar]

Nicely done. How many bits did you end up going through. Are they going to be bent. The reason I ask is the grain direction looks different across the different pieces.

[ifffff]

They arent rally car seat backs. they are ATV skid plates. I make cutting job and then they gonna be bent and welded.

[ifffff]

Some pictures of one job. Wind turbine blades, 2,8 meters long. Workpiece was 120*400*3000 mm. Cutting time for one blade about 16 hours.
Pictures:

[smreish]

exceptional use of the MM. Bravo.

[MetalHead]

Sweet !!! Have I mentioned how awesome MechMates and their owners are ?? !!! I am loving all these great projects I am seeing everyone working on.

[smreish]

???
Is that blade made from a single block of lumber or is it laminated.
You can't find lumber that is that nice for a good price here in the states.

[ifffff]

Its laminated spruce. Price here is about 100€ per piece. Many are already asked for sharing blade file. I post it here. Profile is NACA 4419

[hennie]

Those blades look like they can be quite heavy?

[ifffff]

No they arent so heavy. One blade weight is about 15-20 kg.

[ifffff]

Havent posted here for long time. I decided to build second mechmate. This time all steel tubes. Work area same as first one 3400x2100
For now steel is here.
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15687

[lonestaral]

Good luck with the second build Ivo.

Do you have that turbine blade in STL format.
I tried some online conversions but I keep getting a empty file message.

[ifffff]

I have .igs file. Stl seems to be already deleted. If that format is ok give me your e-mail address.

[lonestaral]

I downloaded the .igs file from your earlier post.
That is the one I tried to convert to .stl online.
Thank you for your reply.
Have a good weekend.

[ifffff]

Here is stl file. 15701

[lonestaral]

Thank you very much.
It worked.
I will build one to scale some day:)

[ifffff]

Its taking shape. Has someone good idea how should i turn this beast on feet? If i gonna weld base table all togehter i weights about 900kg.
Some pictures too:
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[Borko]

Good luck with second build Ivo.

[ifffff]

Its now on feet, with help of telescopic loader. For cross bearers i added one rectangular tube to support center. With 115kg load ( i standed on it) bends cross bearer 0,08mm. On my first mechmate i havent measured bending, but it is visible if i stand on table.
15752

[Fox]

Nice and beefy ;-) good to see some activity here.
Why did you make your triangulation short as in with straight pieces in between ? You loose a little of the effect yoir are after that way.
Also since you are all welded, other way round would mean even more stiff tabletop.

[ifffff]

Making triangulation is limited by bandsaw sawing edge. But i think its strong enough like this. Diagonals and lower cross braces are made from 80*60*4 rectangular tube, cross bearers 120*60*5 tube. By adding 5x more steel i think table is almost unbendable, but this is already story of third build.

[ifffff]

More about rigidity. Main beams are 200*100*8 tube, end plates not welded yet. I fixed indicator on cross bearer and its needle to upper edge on main beam. Flex with twisting it with hands are 0,02mm. #38 main beams are made from 200*75 C channels and i can twist them about 1,5mm!!!!!!:eek:

[ifffff]

To achieve better accuracy i gonna use hiwin HGR20 linear guideways. To get linear slides better fixed and keep them on their place i made from 12*80 steel bar linear slide bases. Of course i milled them out with mechmate.
Milling with endmill tip is good endmill killer.
15757
For saving bits as cutting 2,5*20 stripe on steel bar i drilled some holes.
15754
Steel bars were quite warped too, so lets cut them straight.
15755
15756

Milling steel bar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfbCJJ2qcWU)

On video i am cutting steel bar straight with endmill side. Spindle 10000rpm, feedrate 480mm/min, stepover 0,6mm. Endmill is TaeguTec TSE 2060M UF10

[Fox]

That's cool ! Interested to see the linears, I have same laying around, but never mounted them yet still using MM v rails.

[ifffff]

To make main beams straight i am levelling them with epoxy.

Dams made from melamine board and coated with mold release wax are in place:
15777
To seal it correctly i poured first on corners one layer fast curing epoxy:
15778

[ifffff]

Meanwhile when epoxy is curing i have lots of holes to thread. For rails about 230 pieces.
15779

[ifffff]

Laying epoxy went out good. Nice and flat surface.
15780
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[ifffff]

Here are some updates about buildlog over looong time.
Linear rail straightness is checked with steel wire. Hanging weight on one side is about 35kg
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Linear rail block mounts milled
16119
To make it more stiffer as original Mechmate, gantry tubes are 120*60*5
16122
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[hflwaterski]

Hi Ivo - Looks like your photos didn't come through as links. Looking forward to seeing them!

[ifffff]

Intresting. Photos are uploaded here.

[hflwaterski]

There must have been something wrong with my browser. I can see them now. Sorry about that!

[ifffff]

I had some time again to work on new MM. Sorry for messy workshop.

Gantry is welded
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16131
Gantry is ready for epoxy levelling
16132

[Fox]

Following with interest, still have my 25 Hiwins laying around, maybe I get around upgrading the beast someday.

[khouji]

I had some time again to work on new MM. Sorry for messy workshop.

Gantry is welded
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16131
Gantry is ready for epoxy levelling
16132

Your workshop is really cool!

[Fox]

What kind/brand of epoxy did you use ? I hear common epoxies creep up at the edges, and you need special self levelling versions.

[ifffff]

Yepp, epoxy is creeping up at edges. After drying i am sanding it down.

Actually i dont know what epoxy it is. On bottle is only information on its properties: UV proof, 5 hours liquid time, 10 hours gel time, total curing time 48 hours. Got it from local composite materials supplier.

[ifffff]

I had over long time again made some progress. Y car laser cutted parts arrived and it is welded together. As you can see on pictures it is little bit different as original. Main plate is 4mm steel, other 6mm steel.
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On evening started aligning Y axis rails
16155

[IamDave]

HIWIN rails. That is awesome. Good luck. It looks good from what I can see so far.

[Fox]

Following with interest. Smart idea to reinforce.

[ifffff]

Linear rails are shimmed straight and i started disassembling it and preparing for painting.
To technique aligning surfaces with epoxy can i say that surfaces are coming out almost perfect. Surface flatness was on 0,5mm tolerance, and i think that inaccuracy is caused of sanding. With 0,1mm shims made of beer can tin i got everything staight.
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Also arrived today enclosure for computer.
16157

[MetalHead]

Looking great!

[ifffff]

Base is painted with Teknos epoxy paint. Color RAL 5002
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[jhiggins7]

Very nice!

[IamDave]

That is a very nice looking, well built table. Definitely strong enough to, take a forklift strike and survive.

[ifffff]

Now moved machine to its final location. I hope to have enough time on this week to clean and paint gantry and Y axis car.
16167
Motors and drivers arrived. Drivers are Leadshine ES-DH2306 and motors ES-MH33480. They are 3 phase hybrid servos.Holding torque 8Nm
For motion control i ordered ethernet smoothstepper and CNC4PC C23 breakoutboard. For some reason CNC4PC people forgot to send me smoothstepper, only C23 board arrived. Promised to send me ESS separately. Again 2-3 weeks to wait.
16168

[IamDave]

Wow. That thing is a beast.

[Jason Marsha]

Great work. Can't wait for the videos of it cutting.

[ifffff]

I had not much time on this week for cnc building. Only cleaned and painted gantry
16169
I am waiting criticism to another cnc related idea. I am planning to rebuild my dust extraction to one bigger central unit instead of on each machine one small unit.. Lets say for example like Holzcraft ASA 4003
16170
But to improve shop air quality by blowing used air outside and avoid building special cabinet over dust extractor is idea to order special filter bags. They should be double walled, inside filter cloth and outside airtight fabric with output
16171

[IamDave]

I for one think, that is a good idea. I use a dust collector can, in between the blower and router. Still when it comes time to empty it, it is problem. I fill it up twice a week most times.

[IamDave]

Apologies, I got interrupted. What I was trying to say is. I switch the one hose from, my 3x5 router to my 2x2 router. It makes a mess. Not much but it is enough to build up.
I always cut 1.25 inch thick extira panels. So I make a lot of heavy dust.

[ifffff]

Some progress again:
16173

Yes, changing dust bags/emptying can makes dust, but idea is to keep shop air cleaner by ending dust recirculation. Anyway i try this idea when my new dust collector and pipes arriving.

[pblackburn]

As in terms of exposure, the changing of any collected media poses more concentrated exposure to the harmful particle. However you choose to capture the dust is up to you, disposing is the higher risk when you have dust collection.

[MetalHead]

Ivo great progress on your machine. Thanks for the detail pictures.

[ifffff]

Gearbox ver 2.0
It is basically same as on #38. But i made 2 upgrades to my gearbox design compared to gearboxes on MM#38. First stronger schaft bearings, 6202 instead of 69102. Appears to 61902 are to weak. On #38 i schould replace them on every 3-6 months. I hope 6202-s last longer. Second upgrade is connection to frame trough 2 6000 bearings. On that way is connection freely moving and what is most important, backlash free. Only bolt trough hole can look tight, but it generates sometimes problems.
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16176

[Fox]

Good to see you are exactly addressing the areas I would or have improved on the standard MM design. Still following with interest. Happy New Year in advance.

[Macwood]

Hi Ivo
I am following your build closely as I am interested in using hiwin HGR20 linear guideways also.
Did you use full lenth guideways or join short lenths? would you be happy to share who your supplier is for hiwin products?

Thanks

[ifffff]

All linear guides - except z axis ballscrew - and belt reduction stuff are bought from Mekanex (https://www.mekanex.com/). All guideways are of cource full lenghts. I better pay extra 100€ for long item transport instead of generating problems to myself.

[IamDave]

Ivo. I checked in to see your new stuff. What do you make?

[ifffff]

Havent done not much meanwhile. Z axis is projected and details milled out. Made it from 15mm thick 6082 alu sheet with 50x20 reinforcements to minimize deflection.
16223
And other free time what i have after dayjob, is gone for building complete new dust extraction system with one big central unit instead of small blower on each maschine.
16224
More about it and more pictures tomorrow.

[ifffff]

As promised some more about new dust extraction system. As i earlier posted here idea is to vent that air what is coming trough dust extractor filter outside. For that i ordered special bags made from pvc tarpaulin material. Those bags are over dust filter bags and have output for air what is vented outside. Outputs are behind bags, trough wall and not visible on picture.
16225
Now i have clean workshop air :D.No extra fine particle dust on air.

Blower is Holzmann ABS 5340P. It has 5hp (3,7kw) motor. It has huge suction power, and already on first tests was clear, that this is way too much. I installed for blower fan speed regulating VFD (Invertek Optidrive E3). On blower fan speed 1800 rpm it has enough suction power to serve 1-2 125mm pipes together (main pipe is 250mm).
That blower running on 1800 rpm is unbeliavably quiet. When smaller units are screaming on high rpm, then its working sound is comparable with cordless drill.
Shortage is, that on colder days is workshop colder due air exchange and needs more heating power, especially when dust blower is running long hours. But spring is around corner and that isnt problem anymore ;)

[IamDave]

System to keep the lungs free of dust. Very good idea. I wear the little white masks, when I am cutting and sanding. It is amazing how dirty they get. Thank you for the posting of pictures. You guys are inspiring to me.

[ifffff]

I suggest to buy instead of those scrappy white masks 3M half facemask. Example: https://www.pksafety.com/halfacres60s.html or https://www.pksafety.com/3m-7500-lead-dust-respirator-combo.html and fine dust filters https://www.pksafety.com/3m-p95-filter.html for them.
Dont buy it over internet. Go to store and find put what size / mask fits perfectly with your face. I have both of them what i linked, but 7500 series fits better to my face.
They wont leak between face and mask like those white masks, and end of dusty workday there is huge difference how much dust have you on your lungs. Of course those white ones are better then nothing, but..... they are quite poor.

[ifffff]

Some of Z axis details are screwed together, i hope to finish it tomorrow.
16235
16236
And started to install electronic and wiring
16237
16238

[ifffff]

Completed today Z axis. Flex buy pressure applyed one hand, measured on spindle bracket is about 0,08mm. To comparision, applying same force on #38 z axis i can bend it almost 1mm.
More pictures about it:
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16241
16242
16243

[IamDave]

Your z looks awesome and sturdy, good for cutting thick materials.
Today I use my new mask like you suggested. I breathe good. :D.

[IamDave]

oops

[jeep534]

wonderful job it gives me inspiration for getting on with my build

happy hunting
archie

[jhiggins7]

Love your Z axis. Thanks for the great pictures. Is it your own design?

[ifffff]

Yep, my design.

Got finally most of wiring job done and it moves.
16265
And today started assemblying spoilboard.
16264

I having some kind of problems with those Leadshine closed loop steppers. They are making sometimes weird noises, and if i rush them drivers are getting very hot. I wrote to reseller, seems what they answer. But i hope that i did not buy for 2000 euros pile of crap instead of high end steppers.
Running on 10000mm/min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud2LOupiKAw
Running on 8000mm/min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjY_z5t57Oo
There isnt even no possibility for bad contact etc, because i did not use connectors. Wires are soldered together.

[IamDave]

I hope you get the problem worked out. You have more in motors, than I do my whole build already. I watched the videos-Nice.

[ifffff]

Spoilboard is ready and surfaced
16274
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16277
First test cuttings made too:
16278
Bought from ebay tool setter for Z axis. https://www.ebay.de/itm/IP67-CNC-Automatic-Tool-With-Blowing-Setting-Gauge-Z-Axis-Presetter-Locator/332356341874?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 Repeatability is as promised. 0,001mm. I added this upgrade to #38 too.
16279

Still having problemis with motors. Lowered driver current settings, as Leadshine reseller suggested, strange sounds are disapered, but now i havent any power anymore. It is able to move max 6000mm/min, higher speeds stalling problems appear. On same time drivers are coing very hot. Everything what is possible to test is tested, even took computer, smoothstepper and BOB from #38 to be sure that problems arent on input signals to drivers. Now ordered one more motor -driver set what is tested for Leadshine Germany reseller and is working. When it arrives can i go on and find out what is causing problems.

[IamDave]

Ivo your work is amazing.

[ifffff]

Got on friday new and tested driver-motor set. With new driver everything seems to work fine.

Motors stalling due too large postition difference, it was able to move max 8000mm/min, stalling on 10000mm/min :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynruS3uWVhA

on 75% current setting extreme jerky movement, but due encoders and closed loop system there is no position loss on stop:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP7aPyxdEtQ

Installed new driver and now i am able to move axis 20000mm/ min and more without any problems:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyxa15ml2Go

Now i am waiting what Leadshine reseller is answering.

[IamDave]

Glad your getting it sorted.

[ifffff]

Sent drivers back to reseller. Now i am waiting their standpoint on this case.

[ifffff]

Got new drivers, and its running again. Now its working smooth and without any strange noises, vibrations etc.
Those 3 phase steppers are quite powerful. Tried to move axes 50000mm/min - no problem. But limited max speed to 8000mm/min. Safety first, and i am sure that running it so fast will broke something soon.
Second good thing, they havent resonance on any speeds. Cuts are on all angles perfect. I cant say that for chinese steppers/drivers what are on #38.
Also ordered stickers for number.

[IamDave]

Alrighty Ivo. Anxiously waiting, to see it cutting stuff. I am watching and learning.

[ifffff]

And it is down again. Spindle VFD starting to give e.oc.n error messages. According to google propablly bad current sensor inside huanyang vfd.

[ifffff]

Checked socket and wire connections. Nothing did not seem loose but tightened everything and it is working again. Lets hope that it will be so. It may be socket what connects wire to spindle. Earlyer i had on #38 2,2kw spindle (now both have 3kw unit) and that 2.2kw original socket was problematic. I threw it away and soldered wires directly together. If problems again appear, seems that i should to it again. I hate pluggable sockets on CNC. Always they are source of problems.

[IamDave]

So you think is better to not use connectors, and to solder the motor wire connections as well.

[ifffff]

Well... There is lot of industrial connectors what are very good. But usually those connectors what are coming with chinese stuff are problematic. At least my experience is saying so.

[IamDave]

Yes. I was going to buy connectors, but have decided to go with the heat shrink but joints. They have lasted well (10 Years) on my other machine.

[pblackburn]

I use Amphenol connectors. I replaced the originals. I have it posted about those in Tom's thread here (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=64098&postcount=258)

[rischoof]

hello Ivo, I also replaced directly the connectors from the chinese spindle by emphanol connectors.
I used emphanol for the spindle and harting Han for the motors. on the machines build by the company I work for , we use a huge ammount of connectors. never saw anny problem wiht emphanol or harting. avoid lemo connectors...
The wires are shrinked to the pins. at home, I do soldering. once had the problem that a small soldere wire (when removing the soldering rod) makes shortcut between the pins. Now I u:cool:se my glasses during soldering
You have a very nice z axis

[IamDave]

Amphenol connectors. Thank you for pointing it out to me. I do really appreciate it.

[jeep534]

Yes. I was going to buy connectors, but have decided to go with the heat shrink but joints. They have lasted well (10 Years) on my other machine.

aircraft use only crimp wire to wire connections (with proper crimping tools)

archie

[ifffff]

I had little debt. Missing stickers.
16309
16310
Milling sprockets from 7075 aluminium sheet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9hT5NXK0Ng
5mm one flute endmill
Spindle 24000rpm
Feedrate 2000mm/min
Stepover 3mm
Stepdown 0,7mm
Those are "safe" settings. It can cut aluminium long hours without breaking endmill. At #38 was safe to cut 7075 alu 2x slower due flex.
Result:
16311
16312

[lonestaral]

Nice work.
I will try aluminium when my spindle is running.

[Jason Marsha]

Wow. No lubricant?

[ifffff]

Yepp, no lubricant. On shown settings is tool lifetime somewhere between 50-100 cutting hours. I have cut over years tens of tons alu sheets so. Maybe with emulsion it is longer, but i try avoid lubricants. Too messy

[YANLM]

it's very impressive, nice job. have you a link for the one flute endmill?

[ifffff]

Well... They are coming from Estonian reseller with product code what does not lead nohere and here have they EcoStar trademark. Again google isnt sayng nothing.

Sometimes they have engraved Cerin on them and i quess they are 110A.050051450 http://www.cerin.it/catalogue.pdf Page 150

My quote to Cerin had answer that go and buy from your local reseller, so ... propablly they are that ones.

[YANLM]

ok thks i will take a look.

[ifffff]

Made some rope driven blast gates. I think they are better than regular push-pull type gates.
16333

16334

16335
To prevent static electricity buildup i grounded gate. Black material is PE
16336

Serial number for second Mechmate?

[MetalHead]

Sure looks like you get #130 !! Cool to see two working side by side!

[jhiggins7]

Congratulations on completing your 2nd MechMate. Here is the Updated Builder's Log (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SDSq8C8mQKJzp0oTrXtHcTYXp_QmFlYev9zRc1X2nZE/edit?usp=sharing) with your 2nd MechMate entry added. Please review the entry and let me know any changes you me to make.

[lonestaral]

Well done #130.
Have fun.

[ifffff]

I have here some kind of strange problem here with my new MM.
X axis gear is totally worn and gear rack looks worse than my 9 year old #38 gear racks. A and Y axis gear/racks are looking as new. All of them are from same source. Nothing does not seem to be misaligned .... Does anyone have idea what may cause it??
16346

16347

[Robert M]

Wooow....can't confirm & no "metal" guru.....
But....say, in my case it was a question of how "tight" or say, how strong is the spring tension "up pulling" the motor to rack ?!
Surly you have check this & fully aware of this, but, sometimes I too tend to oversee the most "obvious"...:rolleyes:

Best of luck... ;)

[jask]

I would contact the original manufacturer, the alignment and count look good and that makes me think the gear was not properly hardened.

[ifffff]

All three axis have same spring and tensioned equally. And weared is only one gear, so reason cant be over tensioned spring.
I will ask what is answers have gear/rack seller.

[Regnar]

If I had to guess and this is only speculation I think your gear did not go through a hardening process after it was machined. It became the weakest link and wore out first. You can run a file over it and see how much metal it removes compared to your other gears.

[ifffff]

Ok i will try how much it is softer. But all gears what i have used on both mechmates arent hardened. On #38 is gear lifetime 2-3 years hard work.

[ifffff]

I made sprocket milling (https://youtu.be/82RPAsOoric) video

[Robert M]

nicely executed, love it Mate @_# !!

[YANLM]

:) very nice
well done!