Started making windows with the mechmate ... #70 - Rome, Italy

[silverdog]

Ciao,
Sometimes looking at someone else errors can help .... so I start this tread hoping many would laugh at those stupid errors :o
A skilled mechanic knows very well that rush and distractions are his firsts enemies ..... but dummies are often not able to control them.
So, let start laugh:

The first thing I did was to build the Y-Car ... the parts are so well studied that it's quite impossible to make a mistake.
Gerard as pointed out very well that you have to pay attention to the squareness at a certain point of welding.
As a good dummy I was very concentrated on this point .... and impatient to see my fist piece toghethe that ...... guess what ?
........ does the word coutersink tells you nothing ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersink (for those not too familiar with english )

On the plans Gerard adviced to countersink the holes before welding the Y-Car :o :mad: .... it is not such a great problem .... but it would be easier, to avoid errors, to read the plans better before you start, and not to control after you started ! :o

[silverdog]

Second job: Cutting the Rails !!!
Most important invention after the Weel ? Obviously JR's Skate !! (at least here)
It's mandatory for this project to have a strong plain surface, then, cutting the rails it was an easy task ....... problems ? Not really, but consider this tread: http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1168
I cutted the rails in just one operation at the height requested (28 mm), just consider you have to change the disks about 3-4 times. And here is where a dummy fail !!
I did not considered in my woood skate base, the space to change the disks :mad:
I was very scared to remove the grinder from the base, (to avoid any misalignment of the cut) so I badly cutted the base to let the space to change the disk.
That's All. Time taken ? 2 rails one day ! (no rush)

[Gerald D]

Sergio, thanks for those lessons! :D

[Greg J]

Sergio,

We ALL made mistakes. :)

Some of us are just more public with their lessons. Keep up the good work. ;)

[Doug_Ford]

Amen Greg. I made lots of mistakes but I was too timid to post them because I thought everyone would laugh at me. I shouldn't have been that selfish. Future builders benefit by seeing the traps and pitfalls and hopefully, they can avoid them.

[javeria]

The dummy is doing good :D

U have to read my archived thread and the current thread to understand what a true dummy is :D

[silverdog]

Sorry for the delay, some photo will follow ....
At the moment I have all the rail cutted I thought it was tougher .... it was just a snap -:) .... about half an hour/meter .... then I made all of the holes on the Y beams, rails and strip ... exactly as suggested by Gerard (start with strip than use it as gauge ..... ) I thought it was harder but with the essential help of a punch and cutting oil ... it was a plesure. Then I startet to grind the rails .... I thought it was easier .... wasn't at ALL !! today I shoud finish ... 3 days two rails (2x2 m) !!
That's a Dummy: underestimate the work you have to do ! :D

[silverdog]

Wow, yes it was tough !
Now for the dummies .... :-)
I strongly suggest to use cut oil when you make holes (in a picture you see the most important tools I used: a punch, to center the holes, a tape to have a better visibility of the marks,and a gauge to make the marks).
Well, gerard told that you need just one disk to grind the rails (and another one to give the last touch) ..... I think he had much better grinder disks than mine .... in my case the older disks were very difficult to use and cutted poorly (in the pic you can see a new one a slightly used and the one I used for quite all the work), when I will grind the X rails I will change the disk more often.
two picture of the final results .... and tomorrow I will go suffer a bit mesuring what I did :D .... any suggestions on tolerances, remedy (I think I can mark the points out of range and correct with a file .... then anothe pass of grinder :(
ciao

[silverdog]

Today I made the order for the base table's iron (around 320€ +70€ of rails and y beams) (2x3,20m 180x70,8x2,015m 80x45,18m 40x40x4mm)..... after I spent a lot of time thinking wich could be the best way to cut the 6 meter bars ... :o .. I discovered that they have 12 meter bars and they sell what you need and you don't pay for the waste !!
Monday I will have the iron at home.
ciao

[Gerald D]

Sergio, I really enjoy reading posts :)

[silverdog]

Ciao,
A long time has passed since my last post .... I wasn't missed .... just very busy with some family affairs ;) My wife programmed some house restoration, and guess who was charged to do the dirty job ? :D
Anyway, now I can dedicate myself to mechmate again, and some progress was done, hope to show some picture of the progress during this week, I should have the table fully welded next week and ..... maybe painted ? I am going to buy RAL 5010 paint during this week (and of course primer),but I have a stupid question is it allowed to use some "glittery metallic" paint ? like in post n°20 in this thread ? http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=856
(yessss I understand the disadvantage of this kind of paint :) but Joe's mechmate is fascinating).
Ciao

[jehayes]

I vote for something fancy in the paint dept. Italians are known as the world's fashion leaders, show us something flashy!:D Maybe a MM by Pininfarina!

[Gerald D]

Welcome back Sergio! I too would like to see some Italian flair - it is all allowed.

[riesvantwisk]

Second job: Cutting the Rails !!!
Most important invention after the Weel ? Obviously JR's Skate !! (at least here)
It's mandatory for this project to have a strong plain surface, then, cutting the rail......

We did cut the rails BEFORE they where grinded :D Second we use our 'own' skate setup in the beginning because my spanish is bad enough to explain well to my father in law where the skate parts where for ....
Later (half a year later) when we finally got the plasma cutter parts, I shown him and he said 'OOooooooo claro!!!!' (now it's clear :) )

Ries

[silverdog]

I vote for something fancy in the paint dept. Italians are known as the world's fashion leaders, show us something flashy!:D Maybe a MM by Pininfarina!

Joe, you are my inspiration !!

[silverdog]

Ciao,
I have a doubt on the correct/better procedure to follow for drilling the cross beams and support table:
If I understood well, I should have the support table squared an drilled, use it as a guide to drill the cross bearers, screw it to the cross bearers, position them togheter under (or above) the long beam, square the table and longitudinal beams and finally weld cross bearers to the longitudinal beams.
Or there is a better option?
thanks

[Gerald D]

My suggestion:

Make a template/guide from a piece of flat iron and use this to drill the holes in the cross beams. Use the same template/guide to drill holes in the wood table top, I should have the support table squared an drilled, use it as a guide to drill the cross bearers, screw it to the cross bearers, position them togehter under (or above) the long beam, square the table and longitudinal beams and finally weld cross bearers to the longitudinal beams.

[silverdog]

Hi, still here with some progress !!
The story of the construction by a dummy will continue soon :-)
for now just a picture to see some good progress.
Gantry and carr are moving flawlessy, all the structure is well squared... I'm very happy !
..... yes ... some minor errors were made :o ... soon I will post some picture.
See you soon
Sergio

[PEU]

between your previous post and this last one you missed one saying: abracadabra! :D

[silverdog]

Well it was just some aligning, welding ... and follow instructions !! :)

[federicodimeo]

silverdog good is wonderful I do not know if I'll even build it.
how did you weld the tubes?. alignment as you did?

[silverdog]

OK, for the moment just the announce:
After a "divorce", a broken shoulder and some other amenity ....
My MechMate is working flawlessly (after some trick :D like changing a rectifier (not my fault), changing gecko's fuses :o :D, correcting a few connections :o ecc. ecc. and obviously some trick with Mach3 configuration !) !! I already did a few v-carving and some cut !
Photo and video will follow this weekend, and very soon the whole story of a "dummy" without experience on CNC, metalworking ... (well yes some in electronics) that succeed in the MechMate building !:cool:
ciao for now
Sergio

[Gerald D]

Sergio! I thought you got divorced from us! Looking forward to the video.

[silverdog]

Absolutely not Gerard ! :) .... it was just a difficult moment (period !!) :)

[Gerald D]

May I call you Selgio while you call me Gerard? :D

[silverdog]

Of course !! :o:o:D

[Gerald D]

(L)ies van Twisk is another guy that spells my name wrong, but both of you have a good humour. :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Don't worry I have a friend called Dough...:p

[silverdog]

First video of a Harley carving test :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nceAZ78fQfw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqHVYk7iOeE


:D:D
and two picture of the harley and a scorpio (mach3 example)

[KenC]

Viola!

[domino11]

Congrats Sergio!

[MetalHead]

Congrats on your build !!! You get #70

[jehayes]

Que Bella! Sergio

Welcome to the number club.

[cortatudo]

Hello Sergio, my name is Lucas (-cortatudo-nik name of mechmate cortatudo-forum).

I live in Portugal and I'm starting to build my mechmate. Already have laser parts and electrical parts and electronics.

But I can not find here in Portugal or the stepper motors, or the rollers. could you help me please?

Thank you.

my contact is:
luisant.lucas@gmail.com

[silverdog]

Ciao Lucas,
For the motors I contacted directly Oriental Motor (both in Italy and UK ) the sold me the motor for about 250 € each. The price was about the same of what you are going to spend buying them from USA when you add custom fee and expedition.
For the roller I took the easy way :-) .... bought from http://www.superiorbearing.com/docs/guidewheels_wheels.html (don't forghet the bushing: http://www.superiorbearing.com/docs/guidewheels_bushings.html).
ciao

[jhiggins7]

Sergio,

Congratulations on Serial #70. We appreciate your sharing some "pointers" about your build for future (and maybe current) MechMate builders.

Here is the Updated Builder's Log (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AttqjIPMBEXKcExveGc4d3U0V25zQmMyX1U1eUVhU Xc&hl=en).

Please review your entry and provide the "cutting dimensions" for the Builder's Log. If you would like to make any changes to your entry let me know by reply to this thread or a PM.

[silverdog]

Thank to all for the compliments and to many for the incredible support and inspiration. Completing this project was an important growing up step in my life.
I will try to document my built very soon .... if I succeed in the construction with no cnc nor mechanical experience and no esoteric equipment .... everybody can do it (thanks to Gerald for the great project)!
Ciao
P.S. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaXQr7kp0yg

[silverdog]

John, here some specifications: cutting lenght: 2600 mm x 1650mm (but table limited to 2200 to leave space for a 4th rotary axis and a vertical clamp to allow dovetails mortasing jointing on the side of the pannels .... at the moment just a wish :-) )
ciao

[jhiggins7]

Thanks Sergio.

I modified your entry...here (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AttqjIPMBEXKcExveGc4d3U0V25zQmMyX1U1eUVhU Xc&hl=en).

I'm anxious to see your 4th rotary axis. Keep us posted.

[silverdog]

Well, some carving on solid wood (pine) and the method I used to block the piece (it was a nightmare to understand how to block the piece untill I had the idea, I always used to block the pieces from the top)

[silverdog]

A sign ...

[silverdog]

The Chaise Longue prototype "Anathemic" designed by Architect Marco Tonci (the one in the picture with his creature)

[Gerald D]

Good stuff!

[Regnar]

Nice Job on both but that Lounge is SUPERB!!!! Is there a set of plans for that or did you copy from the pictures. Either way I looks sleek and very comfortable.

[danilom]

From what material did you cut the Lounge?

[silverdog]

Russell, I took both the pictures (one in a photo studio and the other was in my house) the lounge is made on my mechmate and the material is Valchromat (Danilo). The architect (near the lounge) came to me with an autocad file of the +- 120 pieces.

[hennie]

nice!

[silverdog]

nice!
Thank you Hennie, but I'm only the piano player ... well Mechmate player :)

[javeria]

What ever - great designer and great mechmater! :)

[silverdog]

Thanks Irfan

[hennie]

One question, How do you seal the inside of the gaps once the chair is assembled

[silverdog]

No sealing, the center part is free (you can se the light passing trough). It's glued on the top, the bottom and the sides where you see the clamps (clamp on one side not present in the picture)

[jehayes]

Sergio, thanks for the great photos and ideas. Good work.

[silverdog]

Well maybe a cnc machine is not the first thing to use for making straight windows .... but once you have a jiig to stop the wood in the zero position it's not so bad ... much better than anything else I tried unless you have the proper shaper cutter (which cost for european style windows 3000-5000 euros for one tipe of window).

a photo of the jiig and a foto of the "copy" tenon jiig (inspired by woodgears.ca)

and of course the Mechmate working !! :-)

http://youtu.be/vm1xNcyh_6M

p.s.
if anybody is interessed I have a skechup file with all my effort to draws the windows ... could be a strarting poin

[Alan_c]

That looks great Sergio, it would be good to see that sketchup file.

[silverdog]

Ciao Alan,
It has been difficoult to me understanding all the process to profiling and tenoning of a tipical european window, so if I can save a little time to others ... or just for curiosity ...
Even if our machine can't be competitive with a windows production machine, I think it has a big advantage: you can make many different tipe of profiles, so if your window is small you can do a thinner profile, if it's a big window you can do a more robust profile ... specialized windows makers (at least in italy) make just one profile for every dimension. this is not so good on smaller windows because you loose a lot of light. (I considered just straight windows ... if we consider windows with particular shapes our Mechmate can be very competitive !)

[Alan_c]

Thanks Sergio, I have to make some windows for an extension I am putting on my house. I have some old teak (from an old railway coach) that I want to use.

The quality and style of our windows available locally are way below the standard that you guys can get in Europe (mind you we dont have the same climatic coditions to deal with, but the energy saving benefits cant be ignored) We have a saying that our windows are like sticks and a piece of glass in a hole in the wall and European windows are like fine furniture. :)

[Surfcnc]

Hi Sergio

Very nice work.
The pine log round is very creative.

As you are using an alloy hold down jig for the windows you probably could set the x and y with your Z touch off plate.
Put the plate on the jig and have the machine jog itself over to make the contact.
Plenty of the Mach3 screen sets have an X and Y coordinates setting feature if that is the machine controller software you are using.
This should make it easy and repeatable to set the coordinates again at the start of a new day.

Regards
Ross

[silverdog]

Ciao Alan, about the window on the sketchup file, it use a very precise mechanics ( http://www.maico.com/content.asp?L=3&idMen=158 ) or ( http://www.agb.it/eng/catalogo_hardware-for-windows/ ) and has two open options: classic from one side to the other, and "vasistas", just turning the handle 90° or 180°.Use a double glass (can be also triple). In my skp file on the angle view I profiled also 1 rubber gasket groove (the gasket is 16x4 mm), but it'possible to modify the file for 2. The model I did have to be completed with some holes for the hinges and maybe I forgot something ( I will udate ASAP ) but the profile and joint dimension are tested. If you have any doubt just ask I already answered to all the questions to myself :-) (and made a lot of test and .. errors :o ).
Well in the picture you can see the mechanism .... but yes it's on an horrible alluminium frame :)

[silverdog]

Ciao Ross,
Thans for the idea did not think that, but it's very usefull and more precise than use my cross-hair laser pointer (which it's nos so bad anyway ... but your way is much better. The jiig can be removed and repositioned in the exactly the same place, I used some reference pins on the bottom and on the Mechmate boar and with your implementation the work will be easier.
thanks

[lunaj76]

very interesting

[pdicocco]

Ciao Sergio
ti ho PM perche' sono di Roma e se puoi mi farebbe piacere avere un aiuto a costruirmi una MM. Per favore contattami.
Congratulazioni per il lavoro che hai fatto.
Paolo

[silverdog]

Well ... I am pleased to inform the MechMate community that the chaise longue "Anathemic" has been selected to partecipate at the european Maker Faire in Rome the next 3-6 Oct.
The chaise longue was entirely made with the MechMate ! :)

[Gerald D]

Nice job Sergio! Is that Valchromat?

[Regnar]

Beautiful and congrats on the maker fair!

[sailfl]

Sergio,

Nice job on the chair. Nice design.

[Andrew_standen]

Nice work on the chair, looks good

[silverdog]

Thanks all, yes Gerald is valchromat we ( me mechmate operator :-), and Marco the chair designer ) made something like 8 or 9 different colour cominations ...

[silverdog]

:) Gerald, have you any program to visit Italy particulary Rome in the close future ? I don't know .... maybe the first week of october ? :D
I hope it would not disturb you if your creature will be one of the atractions of the Maker Faire in Rome .... :D :cool:

[Gerald D]

Sergio, I won't be in Europe this year, as far as I know at the moment. But, plans might change if there are enough reasons . . . :)

[zumergido]

nice work... iam intrigue on this valchromat material.. is colored mdf? the valchromat home site says they are fibers.. not more.

forza italia...

[Gerald D]

Yes, colored MDF

[silverdog]

Things are moving Mechmate is (partially) moving.
I have been invited to the Maker Faire ( http://www.makerfairerome.eu/en/ ) with my Mechmate, the idea is to produce (and build) a Wikihouse live with the Machmate. 200 thousand people are expected to visit the event :) ... and the Mechmate it's something that will not be unnoticed ... at least for the dimensions :)
The Mechmate will be hosted in the Fablab Rome stand ( Fablab Rome is going to be launched very soon with the support of italian institutions).
Instead of moving the whole Mechmate I proposed to build a new base table because the cost of transport of the whole machine is comparable with building a new base, and "add" all the moving parts and electronic of my Mechmate. The new base will be partially bolted to permit DIY transport and at the end of the show it will be moved to the Fablab Rome where will be used to start a new Mechmate, built by fabbers with my supervision and phisical help, there is also the idea of doing a full documentation of how it will be built .... all things are now carried on by the enthousiasm of some people, Alessandro Ranellucci ( http://slic3r.org/blog ), Costantino Bongiorno (maker recruiter at Arduino & Maker Faire Rome )... and me :o
I personally think that having Gerald as a VIP at the conference would be great, but at the moment it's just my mind's fantasy .... the reality is that tomorrow I have to ask some quotations for the metal and accessory for the base table, give them to Alessandro who will ask to the Fablab's sponsors ....
Things moves quickly ... things change quickly ... at the moment we have a beautifull project, I have a beautifull house, some bottles of wines :) ... let's see how things grow !

[darren salyer]

I think Gerald as a VIP is a great idea....

[Gerald D]

If I was invited as a VIP, I definitely would not attend. Sorry, but I can't handle personal attention, except from my wife. :)

[akelemen]

Sergio, I am planning to build a MM in Hungary. May I ask you where did you order the laser cut and bent parts?

Many thanks,
Andras

[silverdog]

I am attendig M.I.T. Fab Academy " http://www.fabacademy.org/ " in FabLab SpqWork in Rome ... our small CNC router broke, I needed to mill some PCB ( electronic printed circuit board) something like 24x32mm !! oh, with a 1/64 inch end-mill, somthing like 0.39 mm .... So I decided to test the limit of the Mechmate on very very small work :-)
I think that I can not hide my boredom anymore if someone is going to talk about precision :D

[darren salyer]

Wow!!!

[silverdog]

Sorry, forgot some data:
cut speed 100mm/min
Plunge 80mm/min
very slow ... but I was afraid to broke the 1/64 inch end mill :-)

[pblackburn]

I bet. I only had available a 1/32" 2 flute end mill when I cut my circuit boards. I ran mine at 24000 rpm, 10 IPM (254mm/min) plunge was the same as I ramped in on a distance and not angle. Awesome job Sergio

[zumergido]

iam a electronic hobbiest and still dont get why the use of a cnc instead of toner transfer.
well maybe you dont have a laser printer but it cost less then 100uss. and the paper cost almost nothing. some glossy 120g laser paper.

i love those anathemic chairs... and yes.... the mechmate have a great resolution.

[pblackburn]

Just to prove we could. I made many pcb in college with photosensitive clad. Much cooler to watch the Mate do it. Plus I have no need for a laser printer and why spend 100 when you can spend 7. Just my opinion.

[silverdog]

Fernando,
There is a very good reason to not use tone transfer and chemical erosion ... it's absolutely forbidden by M.I.T. prof. Neil Gershenfeld, our teacher in the Fab Academy.
The reason why it's mandatory not to use chemical process is because it's a very nasty enviroment poison and if you don't treat your waste in a safe manner (and it's not possible for hobbiest) there are serious risk to enviroment damage ... when we need to prototype the mill procedure it's ok ... if we need then a production it's much easier to have the circuit made by a service .... We understood that lesson and we agree with prof Gershenfeld to avoid any enviromental risk.

[silverdog]

Having istalled a new controller ethernet board ( the UC400eth ) I tested an insane speed of 30000 mm/min (1200 inch/min ) on my MechMate .... my everyday rapids are a more conservative16000 mm/min ....

https://youtu.be/qObm2jiZQVU

[Regnar]

Are you using Mach 4 or the UC software?

[silverdog]

I used Mach3 and the UCCNC software but I am migrating to the latter ... I already started working with UCcnc, I just need to configure thr joypad plugin and the laser pointer offset ...

[Regnar]

Sergio,

Just wondering if you made the switch permanent and how you are liking the software. About to pull the trigger on purchasing hardware and software.

[silverdog]

Ciao Russell,
Yes the switch is permanent :-). I'm happy with this software, it's very easy and powerfull ... I would like to make a side by side comparison but very little time at the moment.
It worked for many hours now, I still miss some configuration (laser pointer and z zero ... ) because I was very short of time. The biggest advantage of mach3 is the huge community ... you find all the info you need and I worked with it for years now. But the new hardware (UC400ethernet) is absolutely great. I have a very little problem with the software (I think it just need to reinstall), it does not save my joypad config (it did it at the start) so each time (once or two in a day) I start the program I have to set some values ... but I didn't tried any solution at the moment.
In a few word I am very happy, the price is fair (I payed 40 euro the soft and 120 the hardware).
The machine runs faster. I did some intricate cut and the results are much better than mach3, with no rounded corners (the CV is managed better) but in those cases the time taken to cut is longer.
Both UCCNC and mach3 can be installed on the same PC and yes you can use any computer you like to drive the MechMate ( I used my laptop :-) ).

[silverdog]

Ciao,
Time to move ande time to change :-)
My MechMate had traveled a lot those years considering also two Makerfaires (were I built a bolted base which unfortunately and naively it's not in my possession) ...
Each time I moved the base table it was a nightmare because is slightly largher than most of the trucks ... so I decided to cut my base table to transform it in a bolted base !
With the opportunity I will renew and repaint everything and much important I will finally add the 4th axis - indexer :-)

[silverdog]

Here are the preliminary idea for the indexer.
It will be bolted (and removable) at the front end of the Mechmate, with a max diameter of 400mm and a lenght close to the Y axis capability ...
If you feel something is wrong in the structure idea, please let me know :-)
I probably use a chuck and tailstock commercially available ( http://www.ebay.it/itm/CNC-Router-Rotational-Axis-4th-A-Axis-4-Jaw-Claw-100mm-Chuck-NEMA-34-Tailstock-/251380442926?hash=item3a8771272e:g:xdgAAOxy3zNShh1 N )

[smreish]

I would recommend allowing for the tail stock to be movable (like slide)

I used Unistrut welded open channel up and bolted the tail stock down to move to accommodate different part lengths.

[silverdog]

Sean,
Yes absolutely ! the tailstock will slide and have a rapid block lever (still to be designed).
The tailstock support will be the blue part in the picture ( inside the orange box you can see the part which will be welded /bolted together ) it's made of four 80x60x4mm rectangular tube. The part will slide on and inside the two Y C channels (UPN80 ... 80x45mm).
The Chuck support, made the same way, will be fixed in his position.
All the indexer structure will be bolted to the main X beams and will be removable.

[smreish]

That's a better picture. looks like you have it all sorted!
Good luck.

[silverdog]

looks like you have it all sorted!
Well you never know untill you've done :-)
Thanks

[silverdog]

an interesting work ...

[vallie4]

Wow really like that one. Did you made that yourself?

[silverdog]

No I just cutted with the Mechmate ... The designer is architect Marco Tonci Ottieri... The same of the Anathemic chaise longue.

[silverdog]

A work made by Antonio Iaccarino of Equilibrarte (on his Machmate) on a reproduction of Emperor Augusto fro Musei Capitolini ....

[silverdog]

the whole set of pictures: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211309040497638&set=a.10211308929854872.1073741910.1109014643&type=3&theater

[lonestaral]

Impressive.

[IamDave]

Inspirational