Laminating ply wood double side

[javeria]

Folks - I want to laminate a 4x8 plywood sheet both sides with a 1 mm thk laminate - what is the best way to do it??????

I tried inquiring from a ply supplier and they told me that it was only custom made in large quantity and quoted exhorbitantly for each piece!

RGDS
Irfan

[Jan de Ruyter]

Hi Irfan,
If it is wood, you need to stitch the veneer using special tape to mend the cracks and to prevent it from breaking. You need a BIG veneer press, 30 ton plus to take the whole sheet. There is usually heat (steam) and a lot of pressure involved. Use PU glue. I have seen presses made from granite blocks and flat water tanks. This makes it beyond the scope of a small shop.

Alternatively, you can use contact adhesive, although the results can be disappointing is your veneer is not perfect. Usually only works on a small area.

If it is panelyte/Formica, (resin impregnated paper) it becomes a lot easier. Clean the surfaces, apply a thick coat of contact adhesive, wait till it is touch dry, lay 10 x 10 sticks across the wood to facilitate the alignment of the panelyte and start to remove the sticks from one side, pressing it down. The more pressure you apply, the better it is, the duration of the of the pressure is irrelevant.

We used old rubber covered printing press rollers. Something like and old washing machine. The rollers + frame took little space and it worked quite well.

Best regards,

Jan

[smreish]

Irfan,
My shop used to do this on a daily basis until my supplier started offering it for me.

To make that sandwich of ply and laminate we did the following:
(this is the normal cabinet makers way of laying up laminate)

...with Plywood on bench spray with Wilson Art 950 spray contact adhesive
Laminate on vertical bench just behind it and spray with adhesive
...let set up for about 2-5 mins depending humidity
...lay sticks on 12" centers on plywood
"fold the laminate" down onto the sticks.
...pull sticks out from center working out and rolling with J-roller to add pressure.
-------
flip over and do it again.

Now your ready to cut cabinet parts with both faces already laminated.

Good luck.

Sean

[javeria]

Ah that was easy - I was thinking that I will use the white glue and clamp sheets overnight in between two sheets of MDF with metal frames.

your ideas are much cheap - now to search for the sprayable contact glue

RGDS
IRfan

[javeria]

Also what are the precautions I need to observe so that there are no air gaps in between????

bcos in this case I will be laminating the entire ply which will later be cut on the Mechmate - I don't want to gum my tool either ........????

here the contact glue is synthetic rubber based - is that you folks are talking about?

RGDS
IRfan

[javeria]

As G' told me - trying things around ! and round and round ...... :D

[Robert M]

My approach is a tab different since I rarely, if ever, laminate those resin base laminates, BUT on the other hand I commonly laminates wood veneers.
Regardless, I still on the rare occasion laminates those resin base laminates too !!
I wold not recommend veneering on ply, unless you really, really need the extra strength and attributes that plywood can give you vs other type can't
For me ( and any woodworker making it for a living), plywood is not the first choice as is not as stable as some good HDF or even press wood . Plywood may / will make wood veneers crack overtime and that goes with out opening this can of worm on this subject...but plywood also has lot's more voids and tiny crevasse alloying the possibility of some future bubbles developing between your work !

If ever I need to veneer those resin base laminates ( WilsonArt & Formica of this world), I use the same technique as when I commonly veneer wood veneers = vacuum press with PVA long open time glue ( A different recipes then regular white glue with some Xtra retarders in it making it capable to stay “workable” for +/- 15 to 20 minutes vs +/- 4-5 minutes for the regular common public grad white glue type ).
Sure these humongous press with heaters JAN is referring to, will make wonders laminating practically anything on everything, but are made just for that = hi-volume commercial application ( most likely what Sean's supplier or sub-supplier is using to make his).

Most pro small shops are using vacuum press because of space & price but mostly for practical reasons = Veneering on shaped or curved cores.
NO HEAVY commercial zillion ton press can do what a vacuum press can do,...but vise & versa is also true !!!
Another option if you still opted for contact cement, try to find a shop near by with the equipment. A dedicated sprayer & a pinch roller. The pinch roller will give you this extra assurance of less air pocket trap between !

Anyway, my advise is to look in to this vacuum solution if you intend to laminates even a few time per year. Easy, simple, cost effective, practical in many sense including independence of your work schedule (no need to wait for a sub to do it) and pva glue is allot more user friendly vs contact cement, less sticky and more forgiven on those “oops” and last not the least, less sticky on-to cutting tools.

You seemed to be a daring DIYer...:eek:
why not looking in to making your own vacuum system as this is the place (http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm)many hobby & full time woodworkers go...

My two cents advice and hopping to show alternatives.... enjoy, Robert ;)

[hennie]

Agree with you Robert,Altough I have the capacity to do this in my shop I would rather outsorce this out to a company that spesialize this veneering boards because if something goes wrong you have a back door where you can get the rep in and get advice as there are plenty of things that can go wrong.

[javeria]

Ah - the company is just charging tooo much for the laminated ply - so I found a guy who laminates (bothsides) for a charge of around 3 USD. then I will vacuum bag it.

a vacuum pump here is around 200USD, so i will vacuum bag the laminated sheets for a better bond.

RGDS
IRfan

[javeria]

The one in red is the new pump which is 2cfm and can pull 26" Hg , a similar bigger 4 cfm pump is available, the one looking all aluminum is the diaphragm pump(no hp rating on it) which is used, the black is german made pump 3/4 hpwhich with big inlet.

[Robert M]

Ifran....
From your question, I can tell you did not thoroughly read from the web site I suggested:p
A 2 cfm can do any job, but the more cfm the merrier, to some limit although :rolleyes:
If you can afford paying for a 4cfm, it’s a minimum I’d recommend. Remember, this is the air evacuation it will "suck" out for you. Time can be very crucial for some “press” work !!
So, more cfm mean faster to “suck” this air out of your bag, therefore applying pressure “faster”.... It's relative to the work, size, glue type...etc
Make sure the motor is at least a 100 cycle duty.
Have a look at GAST pump motor sets. Known as one of the best out there !!
And may I suggest looking at this too (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17257&postcount=1)
Enjoy, Robert ;)

[Robert M]

PS from my previous post, #11. Have you looked or consider these (http://www.veneersupplies.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=vac+pro+genera tor)or something like this kit (http://www.veneersupplies.com/product_info.php?cPath=60_64&products_id=1688)??
Here, have a look at some pics of my system !
5243
5244
5245

Note to Gerald ; If these take to much space....o-well, delete them :eek:

[javeria]

Thankyou Robert -

I have gone thru the Joe's website completely - I have a compressor whose motor is not upto the mark. I read up the venturi stuff before deciding to work on acquiring the pump.

my needs would be laminationg ply atleast 10 sheets per day and that is what I want to do - and if that happens quickly then better.

its was all well ok till I visited the market today for the pumps. I went to a couple of manufacturers whose direct advice for me was to go for a 100 LPM pump (4 cfm) they told me any lesser would not be good for me!

and all those pumps are rated 0.5HP and around 250 USD+

I came out totally confused - I am not a subject matter expert here SIR,

and to add to it there are so many different types.

well I will get back to this thread once I get the pumps and have things running.

BTW - thats a very nice setup , I can only dream off...

Thank you!

[Doug_Ford]

Robert,

I really got a kick out of the pictures of your vacuum pump and had to show them to my wife. We both agreed that we would be proud to have that sitting in our living room. It looks like a piece of fine furniture.

[domino11]

Yes that is surely the best looking piece of shop equipment I have seen. My shop stuff is usually made of plywood, mdf or if I am ambitious, melamine. I am usually happy when I do a furniture piece that looks half that good. :)
Bravo Robert!

[Kobus_Joubert]

If I have nice equipment like this I first have to tidy up my workshop.:o
I would like to see the rest of your workshop Robert..before a MechMate takes over and make everything dirty..:D

[Doug_Ford]

Yeah. I'd like to see pictures of your shop too.

[Robert M]

I kinda figured that’s what it would create / happen if I put some of those photos up...:o
Bear in mind I make studio & commission furniture as a living and this one was a little project done in paralleled with one of those commission work + some of my shop furniture must have some kind of pizzazz to be up to par.
As for my shop.... Well, Nothing on file as for photos to show. Again, nothing could give it justice as nothing fancy since I work out of my house for the past 10yrs :eek:
Just bought a nice little piece of land to build a better shop in the woods….peaceful time ahead ...
But... when time permits, I’ll bunch & prep some pics for you guys
Later.... Robert ;)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Robert, but you know us bunch over here...Pictures pictures ...we want to see pictures all the time ...that is why I tried to see more of your shop and maybe work you are doing..

[javeria]

need to just add the filter at the air(vacuum) intake.