Inspired by Multicam, Y Car Mounted - Randers, Denmark

[Kim Mortensen]

Hi everybody, my name i Kim, and I'm from Denmark. I have recently been watching this forum alot, and I am going to start a build of the MechMate Router.

I have access to a Nice Laser Cutter at nights cause that's my work, so all of these parts is easily made for me. Which I see as an advantage for me.

I'm looking forward to getting started with this project, even though it might be a little while before the actual build is going to strat cause of the cold outside and no heat in the garage YET.. hehe

I think it is very nice being able to get plans and all for this machine. The first I have ever seen where I get plans for free. Thanks for that... :-)

[Kim Mortensen]

Then it has started. I have been making some parts on the Laser at work, and have been bending a little too. So here is where I'm at at this time. Looking quite good if I do say so myself....

Next, welding it together, to get a nice looking little piece of machinery. The Painting and so on and so on.

http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/329/2559.jpg

[Gerald_D]

Hey, that looks familiar! http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/happy.gif

There is a special sequence for welding that together, and I plan to do photos and writing this weekend.

But, basically you weld everything EXCEPT the top points as it is lying in that photo now. Until you weld those points, the car stays flexible for twist.

(Remember drawing 1020450D before you get too eager to weld) http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/wink.gif

Out of curiousity, what should the budget price be for having those parts cut in Europe? I know that you are in a special situation, but what would the average guy have to pay for a full set of laser cuttings?

[Kim Mortensen]

Hehe, have been trying to see if I can Weld. Until now it's not very good, but ok, I'm using a non CO2 welder. U know one of those cheap ones that has the gas in the tread.... Damn irritating to use, maybe I'll just get someone else to weld it for me... Irritating it is... Luckeli I made a few of these, I just need to bend the pieces. But other than that I have a few to try on....

[Kim Mortensen]

I'm looking forward to seeing the excact order of welding the Y-Car together so I can get a little further with this one soon.

[Gerald_D]

The weekend had fine summer weather, and wife's family is coming to visit soon, so it was home maintenance time - sorry, no photos yet. Tonight?....

[fabrica]

It seems that you are having some fun over there. All the best to you. Give our regards to all the people who are gathering at your place to enjoy the weekend.

[Gerald_D]

Kim, see this thread (http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/10/2566.html) for the welding sequence.

The snag of living in a place like Cape Town, is that every lost family member finds reasons to come and visit for cheap! http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/happy.gif I need to find parking for 7 cars at my house! http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/sad.gif

[Kim Mortensen]

Thx Gerald.... That looks a little more easy than what I have been trying out... hehe, I'm not gonna show my terrible welding...*GGGG* But This looks kind of easy though.

Gonnat try the first time I get time for it this week.

Keep up the nice informative work Gerald...

Kim

[Donald Neisler]

Come on Kim, I am bitting at my finger tips to see more :-)

[Kim Mortensen]

Sorry guys, haven't had any time this weekend yet, Been seeing my daughter, and when that happens I give all my attention to her.
But maybe I'll see if I can get something welded tomorrow, I have also gotten hold of a Cabinet for the Electronics now, and for free even, surplus from my dads work. Had 2 little scrathes on it, then it's garbage...LOL I'll see if I can take a few pictures sunday or monday.

[Kim Mortensen]

Ok, finally something is beginning to happen here. Just had my X-Axis beams cut today. Damn they are heavy... 3100mm long so that my final cutting area becomes. 1250*2500mm

[Gerald_D]

Don't let anyone tell you that a MechMate is a lightweight hobbyist machine. Good to hear that there is still life in Europe! http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/happy.gif

[Kim Mortensen]

There is nothing lightweight in a MechMate... I am also in the progress of getting a Welder bought so that I can weld it all together also... I'm looking forward to bringing you all pictures in a month or two, at this time we have snow in Denmark... Not good working conditions when there's no heat or insulation in the garage yet.

[Kim Mortensen]

This is the kit i deliver. it contains all the lasercut parts, plus the gauge plate for the z axis. Price is 140Euro's or £100 UK. +shipment.
Payment up front either via bank transfer, og paypal. And yes, the spider plate is bent. I can also deliver bent, at a cost of £50 uk, or 70 Euros giving a final price of either £150 UK or 210 Euros + Shipment.

http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/2/3558.jpg

[Gerald_D]

Amazing how we suddenly have lots of possibilities!

Looking at Kim's pic, you must admit that you get a heck of a lot of value for the price.

Hope everyone noticed that slightly revised drawings were released yesterday?

Kim, that Z-plate might not be as hard as the "tool steel" gauge plate. Do you use something special for the steel, and is it totally flat after the heat of the laser? I am sure it will work 100% but some perfectionists might want the special steel and precision.

[Kim Mortensen]

Gerald, I can deliver in TOOL Steel that will not warp during hardening, but for now I'm delivering in mild steel. i could also use domex 650 steel it is very durabel and very hard. The gauge plate is not grinded so the 2 45 degree angles you need to find someone else to make..
If the gauge plate needs to be delivered in TOOL Steel the price will change as this is very expensive. Domex 650 is the same price.

[Kim Mortensen]

Oh, and the spider plate i saw that was changes should not be a problem, cause the holes for the V-Rollers are not cut, så people can make them with ease where ever they want to have them. These spider plates are marked for the size 3 rollers. I'm currently in the progress of finding out what the price for the rollers should be from me including the bearings. not pressed in though... You guys must do somethings your selves... LOL

[Gerald_D]

That Swedish Domex 650 is very tough stuff! But, it will be very difficult to cut the countersink holes.

[Kim Mortensen]

there is many more choises. I can cut it in Domex 355, 420, 600 or 650

[Kim Mortensen]

Finally, I have a price indluding P&P to the UK...

The Price for one complete set, including the Gaugeplate is £175 delivered to your dorrstep anywhere in the UK...

[Kim Mortensen]

Ok, finally again something is quietly happening here, have just ordered my X and Y rails, final price, will be well under any price I have seen inhere, good to have a dad who has all the connections when things need to be made... So this said, I will have X and Y rails made for around $75... :-D

[Gerald_D]

Kim, I have to meet your dad sometime. He and I have a lot in common....sons who want cheap CNC machines. http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/happy.gif

[Kim Mortensen]

Gerald... Nice... I think it's nice having dad's who can fix things at a reasonable price...

[Gerald_D]

Us oldies have to be careful of the KIPPERS - Kids In Parent's Pockets Eroding Retirement Savings. http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/happy.gif

[Kim Mortensen]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Nice one Gerald...

[Kim Mortensen]

So now I have my Crossbearers cut, and bent, going to be boltet to the main beams with 2 12 mm bolts on each side of the table. so 14 pcs of 12mm bolts pr side of the table, going to post picture later today of the crossbearer.

[Pierre GRAND]

Kim,

Is it possible to see some photos of your mechmate and cut exemples ???Maybe videos ???
Thanks again for the cuts : mine is on the go...

[Admin]

Posted by Kim Mortensen on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 02:37 pm:

Pierre, You have it all wrong, my mechmate is not build yet... I'm
still in the beginning stage... But when it is done, then I will
gladly put pics and all online.

[Kim Mortensen]

News, thing's happening here....
http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/329/15147.jpg
The Y rail's have also been made.
http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/329/15148.jpg
The Gauge plate also made, with the 2 45 degree cuts...
http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/329/15149.jpg
Here's a look at the gauge plate from the angles...
http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/329/15150.jpg

[Robert Masson]

Hi Kim,

Thanks for those pics.
They will help me as I plan to build one soon.
I?ll follow your progression as an inspiration.
Good luck,
Robert

[Kim Mortensen]

thx robert, I will be posting more pictures in the near future...

[Hugo Carradini]

Hello Kim.
Keep those post coming.
Nice work.
Hugo Carradini

[Marc Shlaes]

Kim,

Which rail grinding method did you use?

[Kim Mortensen]

I had my father make them on a grinding machine at his work... :-D

[Kim Mortensen]

Just wanted to show people what I'm using at work to cut my laser parts for the mechmate...

a 5 Kw Armada Laser with Fanuc Resonator, soon to be replaced by a newer version with a mitsubishi Resonator instead...
http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/329/15218.jpg

[IN-WondeR]

This is my new username, my normal Internet Call sign...

Kim Mortensen

[IN-WondeR]

Finally I'm off to an even better thing than just building the mechmate.

Now I'm even getting my own milling machine. And it's a big one too...

In two month's time I will get this 1700kg big machine home into my garage..

And that's for the low price of around 1100 Dollars US...

And offcourse it will be retrofitted with either steppers og servoes and made a full CNC again...

[IN-WondeR]

I have just mounted the 2 20mm partical boards onto the crosse bearers, damn this is gonne be a big machine.

I have also started mounting, marking and drilling the main beams onto the cross bearers after squaring it all in... Look at the pictures...

[Gerald D]

Yes, it is going to be a big machine . . . .

Just be careful with those heavy beams balanced there - the driver of the tricycle may want to climb up and then pull the beam down . . . .

[IN-WondeR]

The Trike is mine, what are you implying.... :D:D
Just kidding, the beams have been removed again for drilling and tapping 10mm boltholes....

[Hugo Carradini]

Nice work Kim. You are going fast. I am fixing the shop where I just moved to build my "Beast" . I hope to reach your progress soon:D
Keep posting those nice pictures.

[IN-WondeR]

Today I made some progress again.

The Main beams are now securely fastened to the crossbearers, all bolts have been loctited in the tapered holes, so now they shoul not move again unless I screw them out, The Legs are next to be mounted, and the stabillisers for the legs are to be fabricated after that. So all in all, in a little week I can take down from the supports and set it on the floor, I have gotten 4 rubber machine mounts to put on the floor, and 1 16mm bolt to go right through the leg and into the machine mounts for ease of adjustment to get it level all the way around...

When this is done, then it's on with the angle irons and mounting these... Ohh it's so nice with a little summer... :D

[Gerald D]

You sound happy. Good! :)

[IN-WondeR]

Ok, then. Now the rack and pinions have been purchased.
32 feet of rack, and 4 pinions for the small price of around $120 US...

Again, a dad is nice to have... They can get things for small prices...

[Gerald D]

Hope you are going to treat your dad well tomorrow.

(Sean, hope you can see how SOME children appreciate their fathers. :))

[IN-WondeR]

I have also recieved my cablechain, so now I have this in the house too...
The PMDX Breakout card has also arrived, but damn customs, the just made the board be almost 50% more expensive than I had anticipated.

The Card was 81 dollars, but customs here in Denmark add tax for the card, and by god also for the shipping, that's stealing I think,...

[Gerald D]

Be glad they allowed you to get it at all. I don't think the PMDX stuff is completely free of lead? Europe banned lead in July last year.

[IN-WondeR]

Been making some stuff on the machine..
Hard work, and tired I am when I'm staying in the garage 3 hours a day... And goinig to work every night, but it slowly takes more and more shape...
I have also been making homemade I beams for my new garage... The first 6 are done, and need only be made the right lengthe now, warning, they take quite some time to make... but atleast I have made them in the excact dimensions of the real IPE 120 beams....

[IN-WondeR]

Project is standing still a bit, having to many things going at one time is not as smart as it should have been.
But on the bright side, I'm going to be playing with my electrics soon, have just recieved a shipment of no less than 15 centent CNO162 Microstepping drives... And at a bargain to... So looking forward to finding out how many is in fully working condition and how many might have a few snags to work out first... But for the small prise of $24.99 a piece, then I think I can afford to have one or two that won't work...
Next is building the Power supply's and such. and having the kitchen counter project started.... :-D

[IN-WondeR]

More parts have arrived for the mechmate now...

Electrical parts, motors, Centent's and Torroid for the PS, cabinet for the controlsystem. Next up is the capacitors for the PS and 2 E-stop buttons.
The motors are 665oz-in Pacific Scientific PowerPack Steppers... The Torroid is 1.15kW at 49 Volt unloaded, and loaded around 42Volt...

[IN-WondeR]

Have you all seen this rack and pinion...

www.nexengroup.com

The say it delivers more speed, more accuracy and less maintenance than any other system out there....

Click the link for info...

http://www.nexengroup.com/nexen/prod/prod_main.jsp/product?pn=966500

They even have a small video of the thing in action...

[Gerald D]

Hi Kim, welcome back!

See this thread:
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244

[Robert M]

Kim,
What marketing claims is…well in my experience & opinion they just never really care about customer needs, ethics and… the environment. Actually, their paid to sell & pusha product not to care or making it better, just making more sales !
As any marketing guy will say or heard “ it’s a new old thing, just redone in a better way !”
Seen it, done it and out of it for ever !
People, be careful when it’s sound to good. It will never be said enough !!
My opinion. Amicalement Robert :)

[IN-WondeR]

Thank's Gerald...

I'm not planning on buying this, I just stumbled on it, and thought what a nice idea... So what am I doing, trying to build my own version... nice to have a Co2 Laser at your disposal... :-D

Nad as far as accuracy, I'm not sure, but I'll see what it will do later this year as I'm trying to get hold of some pretty small roller pinions for the wheel that drives along the rail... The Rail I have already made DXF for, now all I need is the roller....

And Robert... That is very true, but never the less, I'm going to try and make my own rails and rollers the nexen way to, just to try and make it work for me...

[IN-WondeR]

Having tried a few setups in my little case I have discovered that I think it is a little small, so I have begun making another setup, and building it all into a stand alone cabinet where both computer drive system, and computer screen will be built into, so far this is my electrical back plate...

It is lasercut, and the Riser plate for the Drives is also lasercut...

I have also included a little picture of my Homemade Power supply... Delivering 1.15Kw at 77Volt's DC unloaded, and stays stabil at 70Vdc loaded.... Nice, has a little bigger footprint due to the size of the toroidal.. 8 inches...

[IN-WondeR]

First try of making the rack part of the nexen...

Been cut in 10mm mild steel on the laser at work. Not the best surface, but it's kind of ok... Will try to cut it in 8mm next time, if that works out well, then I'll cut length's in 8mm Domex 650, that ought to hold for quite som time without having to surface treat the material... Otherwise, I'll cut them in Stainless Steel... :-D

[Doug_Ford]

Very impressive Kim. Good luck.

[Doug_Ford]

Beautiful!!!! She's a work of art.

[smreish]

:eek:...and Doug knows power supplies

[IN-WondeR]

Thank you Doug, I'm hoping to find the needle bearings I need for the pinion sometime soon, so I can make that also...

[IN-WondeR]

I'm also very happy with the build up of it... Now onto tthe wiring of the things... Enough to do....

[Gerald D]

Kim, your pinion diameter will be very big.....you will have very little force to drive the router unless you put lots of gears/belts between the motor and pinion.

[Mike Nash]

You may want to reconsider the location of the bridge rectifier.There was a post recently on CNCzone that showed a pretty ugly failure when the bridge overheated and shorted due to a loose screw holding the bridge to a painted metal surface. You have no heatsink at all for your bridge. If it's very lightly loaded you may get by with it, but maybe not. See http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50845

[Gerald D]

Mike, I think the CNC zone guys are over-reacting to the "heatsink" not being good enough for a faulty rectifier. The metal case rectifiers are typically good for 25 Amps without any heatsink. On our first MM I also had the rectifier mounted to wood for quite a long time - it stayed cool to the touch. Personally, I don't like wood in the control box because things can go wrong and I don't want surplus fuel for the ensuing fire. In this particular application, there is no "heatsink" concern - it will run cool if nothing is faulty.

[IN-WondeR]

Gerald...

The Pinioon, will have the exact diameter of the real nexen pinion, 47.5mm in diameter... So not so big again. But yes, a belt gear of 3:1 should do the trick, and this was also intended... I'm currently looking into how to build the pinion as it seems needle bearings whis small isn't available anywhere... but I have some ideas around now...

[Robert M]

Hi Kim,
Now with in mind knowing your making your own « laser copy » of the NEXEN system, I find it very interesting. Please keep us posted on your results and findings, it will be interesting to see cost/effectiveness of it as a DIY – laser cut approach. I like that !
Nice approach, keep up the good work !

[IN-WondeR]

Sure Robert... I will be posting more as it progresses during the next few weeks, I should have a working model ready within a month or so... I need to either get some very small needle rollers or some small bearings that will hold a precision hardened dowl in place so it can turn when it runs the rail... But I'll post all that I can for this homemade "nexen" system.

[IN-WondeR]

Sorry about the slow pace here guys, I have been working too much for the last monthe or so, So I have not had time to work with this yet.
And Now I have gotten a lathe in the shop, so This is being refurbished also... So as you guys see I have more then enough, but I will be doing more on this though... So look back sometime soon I HOPE...

[IN-WondeR]

Ok... A little work has been done this weekend...
I have finished the base of the table, so Now I'm going to move on to the rails, and pre drilling all holes before painting the whole thing..
Notice, everything on the table is still boltet on, so in case of my moving and beeing unable to find a trailer big enough to transport it, I can disassemble the entire machine..

Yes it's a little rusty at the moment, but It will be sandblasted prior to paint.

Oh, I just realised, it's not really all the way done, I still need to mount feet and transport wheels on it...
I'm currently looking at som way of adding som wheels which can lift the machine an inch of the ground in case I need to move it around in the little garage I have.. :-D

On the last picture you can just see my newly purchased Schuchardt & Schütte lathe... :-D

[domino11]

Kim,
Looks like you did an excellent job on your table. I like the way it all bolts together. Would make it a lot easier to move if you had to. :)

[cobra427mnsi]

Kim, table looks good. I have designed mine to be bolted together as well. If I might ask a question. Why did you bolt the flat (large web)part of the C-channel table cross members onto the beams? I would think that the table would have less flex if they were turned 90 degrees. I see that you have two bolts in each end. Putting them on the flat allows two bolts in each, which will keep the table from racking. Is this the reason? Just curious.

Paul

[IN-WondeR]

Personally I only turned the crossmembers over for the two bolt reason. And having looked around at other designs I found that this would actually do a pretty good Job... Although there might be reason for a little flex, the chassis that I have made makes the machine so stiff that I don't have to worry much about flex... It should be ever so stiff as the original welded mechmate.

But If I had the machines to move an entire mechmate with, Then I would most certainly weld it all together... But sadly I don't and the garage I'm in at this time has not got the height to get a crane in there for moving it..

[Gerald D]

Paul, the "racking" concern vanishes when the table top is screwed down. The table top itself simply cannot "rack".

[cobra427mnsi]

Thanks, Gerald. You are right. I didn't think through the process far enough. :o

Paul

[Robert M]

Kim,

You can have a look at my setup - from (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10319&postcount=33)

We have to see Gerald objection.
Normal “profane” DIY-er have to have this hole thing boiled down to a simple & cost effective way. For most, 99%, it is not easy nor cheep to get laser cut parts. You, on the other hand, are lucky !
I to am blessed, I’ve got some few good resources for those, so I’m instigating to get some parts ( 10 10 322 & 10 10 302) done by laser at the same time w/all the others. All & all, for me, not a big if any cost difference vs C channels. Oh, for freight, It’s +/- 10min form my shop !!
Another BIG ++ in my opinion...no drilling in those C-channel, all holes done at the same time, better quality finish & tolerances!!
BTW >> From what I can see, your 10 10 322 are C channels but your 10 10 302 are bent ones !

[IN-WondeR]

Hi Robert....

Yes My main beams are C channels or UNP channels if you want...
But my crossmembers are lasercut and bent..
The main beams I wanted as straight as humanly possible without having to grind them down on a mill...
I would suggest you use the UNP (c channel) for the main beams as you will get the best straightness on top with those..
When you bend a lasercut part, theres the slight chance that the bendingmachine will not bend it all that straight in the middle. It might curve slightly... And considdering the thickness of the steel plate you need to cut it in for the main beams you are in for a surprise when you try to bend it...
Afterall, it's almost ½ inch thick steel you need to bend....
So therefore I used the UNP (c channel) there instead.. Yes, the holes are a hell to drill, but it's progressing quite nicely...

But yes, I'm very blessed when It comes to Lasercut parts...
And I also have a lot more ressopurces present at my work then most other DIY'ers.....

[IN-WondeR]

I can see the springtime here has given me more energy to proceed with this project..
Again today something has been done on the machine.
Still on the basetable though..
First rail has been completed and test fitted and second rail has been predrilled into the main beam...
Next is predrilling all the holes and mounting end stop blocks on the rails.
I also welded to pieces of rack together to form one complete length of rack.
So all in all a very productive coulpe of days for me.

I also just did a rail skate at work yesterday, so Now I have one of these too...

[Gerald D]

Have you cut the rail to final length before using the grinding skate?

[IN-WondeR]

Hi gerald...

No, oh god no...
These rails I have had machined professionally at my dads old work...
So these are ready made for me... :-D

[Gerald D]

Ah, you made a grinding skate today just for fun! :)

[IN-WondeR]

Yes. That's the general idea..

However, I have thought of making a bunch and offer them for the cost of P&P to users of this forum...
But I don't know if it's just going to be the to pieces of metal or ready painted, including bolts but no bearings though...
But I would be happy to offer a set of the two plates, and perhaps the bolt's for the skate as well for the price of Shipping.

[IN-WondeR]

Finally I got together and ordered my mechmate wheels from superiorbearings... So now I'm waiting for these to arrive... I need to add the cable chain shelf on the main table and the painting the main table, but then I'm ready to set the gantry on the base...

So all in all, I'm nearing a time of partially completion.... :)

[smurf916]

Kim
Just been looking at the rack system you were working on did you ever complete this ?? just one suggestion you could try turning a bar down then drilling holes on a P.C.D similar to the rack then cut a groove into the turned peice to the rack thickness then loctite dowel pins into the pre drilled holes

[IN-WondeR]

Hi Liam...

I'm still waiting on my dowel pins to arrive. The shall be mounted in bearings in the Roller pinion, so gluing them into the roller would not work, cause then they would wear out to fast when they travel along the rack...

So no I'm not finished with it yet.

[IN-WondeR]

Today my guide wheels arrived form Superior Bearinigs... nice and fast...

I also have recieved my paint... I think I overdid it perhaps, got 4 liters of Ral 5015 Sky blue, but better to have too much than too little...

The tape has also been ordered for the racks, found 5 rolls of 3M VHB on Ebay for 16.5 Euro incl. shipping to Denmark. Offer I couldn't resist.

So of to sandblasting with the main beams and legs, then paint, it should be good.

[IN-WondeR]

Dissassembly started today, paint is the next part for the basetable... Everything has been test mounted on the base table, so now it's time to paint it... A big piece of work, but it should be easy enough...

Pictures will be posted next week when paint is finished, and it has been assembled again... :D

[IN-WondeR]

Today, the main beams where painted blue...
It's looking very good.

Now it just needs to dry over night, so I can move it outside and I can get all the other parts of the table painted...

[Doug_Ford]

They look beautiful Kim. Great work.

[IN-WondeR]

IT'S ALL BLUE

Today I got all the primed parts painted... I only need the X-rails and a few small item's painted now, so It's looking really good now.
This sunday I will start assembling the machine again...

I'm looking forward for a view of a completely Blue table.... :-D

[Kobus_Joubert]

Those pieces hanging make me think of BILTONG..I think the Americans call it Jerky. Dried salted meat hanging to dry. Very nice with a cold beer when watching a game of rugby.:D

[IN-WondeR]

Today the machine has been partially put back together...
I do however, need the baseboard attached before I can Square the table once again...

I included a nice little picture of my footplates... Curtesy of my dad... :D

But finally it's beginning to look like a mechmate... :D

[sailfl]

Kim,

It is looking very good.

[smreish]

...now that's a footplate!

[IN-WondeR]

Thank you guys...

The rails, and a few odds and ends have been painted today, the table has been squared, and put in it's final position...

Tomorrow, the rails will be mounted, so I can start having some fun with the gantry....

[domino11]

Kim,
Your table is looking really good. How did the bolt together aproach work for you? I think your table uses the most bolt together pieces that I have seen so far. :) I was thinking about going with a bolt together approach as well. Sean also did a bolt together as well.

[dmoore]

Kim,
Your table is looking really good. How did the bolt together approach work for you? I think your table uses the most bolt together pieces that I have seen so far. :) I was thinking about going with a bolt together approach as well. Sean also did a bolt together as well.

I did a bolt together table also, though I welded the side legs and supports to the main beam. I'd recommend over-drilling (~1/8") the holes just slightly on both sides (either to the main beam or the cross supports) to allow a little adjustment. I would also consider moving the holes on the cross supports a bit farther to the edge. Using 1/2" bolts on mine, it was a little tight getting the nuts in. If you can, get ship/car channel that has a more parallel flange than standard structural channel.

[IN-WondeR]

Kim,
Your table is looking really good. How did the bolt together aproach work for you? I think your table uses the most bolt together pieces that I have seen so far. :) I was thinking about going with a bolt together approach as well. Sean also did a bolt together as well.

The bolt together works well for me...
All the cross bearers are mounted with 2 10mm bolts in each end, the legs is also mounted using 3, 10mm bolts. The holes in the legs are slotted holes to add som adjustment...
Most of my parts are build using the the table as a jig, so things have been made to fit each end of the table.. This means all pieces fits only in one place, so all have been tagged for future dissassembly and reassembly...

[IN-WondeR]

Ok guys, busy day today...

The gantry and Y car has been mounted....

I have made a couple of videos of me moving them around the machine.... Have a look...

http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i197/IN-WondeR/?action=view&current=MOV01405.flv

http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i197/IN-WondeR/?action=view&current=MOV01406.flv

By the way, that's my ugly face on video number 2... :-D

[smreish]

Kim,
Fantastic progress.
All those concerned on the force needed to move the MM gantry and Y car should be watching you use just your finger to move the carriage.

...your almost done!

[IN-WondeR]

Yes the carriage is quite easily moved because of it's massive weight, I'm guessing the heavier it get's the easier it moves... The Y car is a littel harder to move actually, but that's only because of the low weight it has...

Next up is the motors, and the racks....:-D

[IN-WondeR]

A little update....

A Router Mount has now been fabricated. So now I can go on to mount it to the Z-Axis...
I'm still waiting on my springs and the Z Gas Spring...

Tak a look at the router mount... Made out of ½" Steel cut on the CO2 Laser at work... :-D

[sailfl]

Kim,

The bracket looks good. But I have a question about why you made it out of steel? Ease of available materials? Is there an added weight difference with the steel over aluminum or is it so minor it doesn't matter?

Thanks

[IN-WondeR]

The reason for making it in steel is that we don't have ½" aluminum sheets at work... These has to be ordered, and that would be extremely expensive.... so rather than paying around $500 for a small sheet of ½" aluminum, I made it in steel instead...

And ½" aluminum is very hard to cut on a 5kW CO2 laser....

[sailfl]

That is reason enough!

[IN-WondeR]

Today I got my electrics cabinet finished...
I have not taken pictures of the door to the cabinet, but it has been made to look like a Rittal cabinet, but after my own specifications.
The hinges have been taken from an existing Rittal Cabinet... :-D

[Gerald D]

Some nice welding on those box corners!

[IN-WondeR]

Hmm, not all that nice, used a disc grinder with a soft lamel disc to make the corners perfect... :-D

[sailfl]

Kim,

Looks very nice.... it just needs some blue paint.

[Greg J]

Kim,

WOW, you make the box from scratch. Nice work. Looking forward to the final assembly.

[IN-WondeR]

Greg and safli...

Yes the box is made from scratch, this makes it easier to make it the size that I need.
Again, it's the advantage of working with a CO2 Laser at work... :-D

Looking forward to getting it painted, and filled up with wires and such.

[IN-WondeR]

Finally after a long dead tired winter for me, I'm beginning to get some energy again.
Today I actually took time in the garage, put some fire in the oven and got a good 18 degrees centigrade in the garage...:-D

A little progress has been made.
I Have started attatching motors and pinions to the machine. For now, only the y and z motors have been mounted. Not yet connected.
Altso, the cables for the motors, and E-stops have been pulled on the machine, and now the E-stops have also been made to work. Well work with a tester for now...:-D

So all in all, a little progress has been made.
I should be able to get to building my cyclone soon, so I can get that finished before I start out any cuts. But for now I'm not sure when it will be finished yet. I'm working constantly and I have very little energy at the end of a 12-15 hour workday... Good money though, but that job really takes away my spare time... :-D

[Gerald D]

Welcome back Kim!

[IN-WondeR]

Thank you Gerald.

[IN-WondeR]

I'm closing my build thread now, after selling the machine to Mike who conveniently comes from the same city as my self.

Mike has started his thread here (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1708)

I'm very sure he will be adding alot of new input to the forum, and soon be able to get the next serial number released from the mechmate family.

I than you all for a couple of very interesting years on this forum, and all the good things that has come of it.

Kim

[domino11]

Good Luck Kim, Hope you can check in with us sometime. :)

[IN-WondeR]

Hello everyone...

Just letting you all know, that I could not stay away from CNC so I have startet a new build. Not a mechmate this time, but a serious build anyway.

Heres a little peak at what I'm working on at the moment.

[Gerald D]

See also Heavy duty Wood CNC in Denmark (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101315) on the CNCzone.

[IN-WondeR]

Gerald

You found me already... :-D

What you see here is put together in a couple of weeks... So This time it seems to go somewhat faster than before.:D

[rceja]

I am interested in the kit (laser cut parts) for the MM, just let me know the final price including shipment to Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico.

Include those parts that need to be bent

Rafael Ceja

Very nice kit !!!!!

[domino11]

rceja,
I think shipping to Mexico would be cost prohibitive. :)

[IN-WondeR]

Domino is absolutely correct.

Shipping to Mexico, will cost something like 500$ so it's not at all cost worthy.

[Conrado_Navarro]

I got my set from Joe (alabama), dont remember the price, but it was not that expensive. it was about 500 dlls including s&h, was november 2008

find another way.

[IN-WondeR]

I know it's blasfemic to post this in my thread here at the mechmate forum. But my new build has come alive...

Have a look at this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij9PklGkZqk

Enjoy

[Robert M]

Kim,
What is blasfemic is we see this other build rolling before we can appreciate seeing your final bleu beast build rolling :confused:

[IN-WondeR]

Robert, my final Blue beast is now owned by Mike, also here from Randers. And it is rolling nicely I might add... :-D
I do think he has some footage in here. I'm not sure though.

[mikefoged]

Yes it's rolling nicely any you can see it here.
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1708

I have moved it for a second time to a bigger shop and added a Vacuum table.
the only real problems was tha It burned 2 Centent cn0162 driver, they are now
switched with Gecko G203.

[Robert M]

Aaaa….caught again at speaking to fast…. :o
Now I remember….after looking back at Mike’s 1st post !!
Well…. Good luck with this other build and hop to see some progress in photos ?
Later, Robert ;)

[IN-WondeR]

As per request. The New blue beast is now making dust. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT53WkQxfkU

YEEPEEEEEEEEEEE.... :D:D:D:D:D

[IN-WondeR]

Build thread on cnczone updated with a few pictures, and the first real cuts...

By the way, did I mention that the machine actually is finished? :D

Here's a little picture of my cuts for this day. The parts are covers for my stepper motors. They are double shafted so this makes the dust stay away from the opening at the shaft. Please excuse the poor qut quality, the bit I was using needs to be sharpened.

[smreish]

Function over form....works for me! Nicely done.

[KenC]

Why didn't I think of that!
Good job & good idea!

[Robert M]

Well though KIM

Build thread on cnczone updated with a few pictures, and the first real cuts...

Simplify thing for a few of us….give us the link for those curious mind :D

[IN-WondeR]

Woops... :-D

Offcourse a link would be nice.. :-D
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101315

[Gerald D]

That wooden cover acts as a heat insulator and makes the motor run hotter.

[Regnar]

Those covers look very simular to these. You could do the same thing and use a cord grip to take car of you wires. http://www.dyengineering.com/IP40.html

Just incase others are interested they do not make Nema 34 covers yet just 23. I was told to keep an eye out on the Mach3 forum in a few months. They might pop up over there.

http://www.dyengineering.com/image/IMG_008.jpghttp://www.dyengineering.com/image/IMG_002.jpg

[IN-WondeR]

Regnar.

Those covers looks very neat. Too bad they don't make them for NEMA34 yet.

Gerald.

Yesterday I surfaced the table, and the motors barely got past 40C when running at 6m/min, so I don't think I need to be worried about the heat.

[IN-WondeR]

Today was a sad day in my life.
I do need to work full time to earn the money I need to buy the parts for my CNC.
And last night was no different than any other night. But however, my morning was. My garage was broken into, and the thieves gutted my CNC completely. There's only the base table left of the machine, they took everything else. All the elctronics, motors, even the entire Gantry assembly which weighs almost 130kg's.. So today I have been rather blue and down. I'm hoping to discover who stole my parts, but I'm affraid I'll never see them again. I'm glad that I have home owners insurance. But still, it's quite the set back for me.

[domino11]

Kim,
Sorry to hear that! Hope the homeowners insurance covers things for you ok! :)

[rceja]

I am really sorry to hear you say that.
I am afraid that the same thing could happen to me because the place where I am building my MM it's no so safe.
Sorry again.:(:mad:

[Regnar]

Kim, Sorry for you loss. I had stuff stolen from me and it takes awhile to get over the feeling. I was not a happy camper for quite some time. I hate freaking thieves.:mad:

[KenC]

Kim, I feel sorry for your loss.
Hey, its only a temporary set back, look at the bright side, the insurance will cover your monetary losses, you got twice the fun building your MM then I do! On top of that, you WILL have a better build at the second go with the experiences gained! It's a blessing in disguise!

[edgey]

Kim, sorry for your loss. Hope you recover from it soon and don't let the thieving B%#^ards get you down.

[Alan_c]

Kim, I dont know what to say, having recently gone through the same thing I know how you feel - its devestating but we get over it and have to move on. Keep a positive mind and keep moving forward.

[smreish]

...if only the world had more honest people. Kim, truly sorry for your loss. I effectively had my machine #5 stolen too, know the feeling.

Sean

[Travish]

Man, that really hit's a guy hard. I have had a car and a motorcycle taken from me before...No insurance on the bike either...ouch that was, so I know how you feel. Hang in there, and you will get through it in your own time. There is a lot of great people here to help cheer you on and get your spirits up. I wish you the best, and strive to stay positive.

Travis

[MetalHead]

Did they take any of your tools? Seems odd if you had tools all over and they took the time to strip a gantry. Most people look at these machines and don't even begin to know what all the pieces are. Not to make a paranoid comment but someone who knows electronics or knows you (both maybe) may be your culprit.

Sorry for your loss !!! For sure !!

[MetalHead]

Contact local scrap yards and pawn brokers with photos to see if anyone has tried to sell these or scrap these items.

[riesvantwisk]

And check your local 'ebay' and marketplace internet websites. Often that stuff is sold separately because they can't sell for a good price anywhere else.

[Gerald D]

The scary thought is that the thief knew what he was targeting, and that he could be a member on this forum or any other that Kim posts on. :mad:

[edgey]

Holly smokes I never thought of that Gerald! Makes me think twice about posting progress photos if they are lurking and waiting to steal it.

[Gerald D]

. . . . or think twice about disclosing full names and/or addresses

[edgey]

I just had a look at the post where Kim sells to Mike and there is a photo of the front of Kim's shed, a photo of Kim...yes he is identified in the text. Anyone from that area may know Kim and after reading his post could work out where his shed is. It's just a shame you have to be so dam careful these days.

[IN-WondeR]

I'm sorry to say, that I also have someone who has looked in the forums suspected of being the thief. But who. I have postet pictures in 3 other forums than here, but the only one where you actually see my house is in Mike's thread in here.
All other threads have only shots taken inside the Garage.

I have never given my full adress to anyone on any forum, except a select few that I trust in completely.

About what the thieves have taken, then yes., They targeted the machine only, none of my tools where taken, and I have a lot laying around. So that puzzled me also. I do have a few peopke suspected, but before I go on accusing someone of haing stolen my machine I had bette be sure.

I have teamed up with another CNC guru here in Denmark and he is looking over a few places for signs of my parts, and if we do find them then "hell is endeed on earth".. :D

But I must also face the fact, that I will probably never see any of my parts again, so I'm just hoping that the insurance company will get my claim processed fast and effortlessly. So I can get back to completing my build again.

I'm going to make som design changes on the machine, actually quite alot. I will go with servoes instead of steppers, I will go with belt drive instead of rack and pinion, and if the finances allow it, then a 3kw spindle will be bought from either Fimec in Italy, or I will buy a Chinese Watercooled spindle instead. I'm not sure. No matter what, then the new design will be heavier, stronger and more durable than the last.

I thank you all for all of your concerns and appreciate all the backup I have from the world of good people that is here. You guys make it worth building once more.

So thank you all..

[IN-WondeR]

So the new design is taking shape...
Even though I hate to have to redesign the machine, then I can't help think that the changes that I was thinking of implementing over the next few years, will actually be implemented now. And what nice changes.

New uprights designed, and the motor will be integrated inside this, and so will the gearbox assembly. The axle in the bottom will on this particular model, drive a rack and pinion version, I'm also making one for Belt drive, but wanted to see if the Rack and Pinion version would work as great as I hope it will.

[Alan_c]

Kim, that looks very nice, keep sharing. I have been wanting to change the gantry to a single beam type for some time now, mainly for ease of access to the spindle.

[IN-WondeR]

Well isn't this fun.

Just got at PM from Metalhead saying that he is going to close my thread inhere because it's not a MM anymore. I'm sorry to say, that I'mn puzzled at that reaction, and I do not believe that anything in my thread collides with the rules and use of this forum.

So well, it seems like this might end up being my final post in this forum, I do not work well under censorship. :-D

There is a link in my thread to my profile at CNCzone.com, so people who want to can follow the progress of the new build. I'm just sorry to say that people in here will not benefit directly with posts in the forum anymore.

It's a sad thing when money sets the rules. Now also on a site that was considered a user kind forum.

So thank you everybody..

[Gerald D]

Kim, the title of this thread is MechMates already cutting (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78) - what you have here no longer resembles a MechMate.

I was the one that suggested to Mike that you no longer fit in with this forum.

[IN-WondeR]

Gerald

Can we please agree, that this forum is called, construction started, but not cutting yet?

[Gerald D]

Kim, I am not in the mood for word games......

This is the MechMate forum. It is privately owned. The owner decides who is allowed here or not. End of story.

[Richards]

If there is only one design in this entire world that is acceptable, then perhaps we should all find another forum.

Synergy comes from a group of interested people helping each other refine ideas. No one person has all the best ideas.

Mike, you can remove my privileges if Kim's modifications are not worthy of being seen.

[MetalHead]

Lets not get all worked up here.

I just want to keep the forum focused on MechMate related builds and ideas. So if we stay in line with that I'll leave the thread open.

Kim I like your input and really want you to continue to contribute to the group. You have in the past and I hope in the future provide great information for those that are here building MechMate machines. You obviously have a lot of CNC knowledge.

I just think if we start to get off the topic of the MechMate design, this forum will become a free for all with Machine designs and start becoming confusing.

We could have had this discussion out of band and not created a stir. I try to keep things cool and not create a public debate on everything.

So feel free to PM me and we can talk about this some more if you like.

[Gerald D]

Mike (Richards), that post was not called for. There is a real chance that if Kim's (and some others) posting of their non-MM machines continues, that I (and some others) will stop reading and taking part in this forum. But to verbalise that as a threat to take my ball and go?

The collective forum is bigger than the people taking part in it. The forum must not loose its focus because there are some members who simply want to maintain their friendships & communications channels. Imagine the senior guys in a football club trying to turn it into a baseball club :eek:

[Richards]

Gerald,

I believe that my post was called for and that it was accurate. You bought a very inferior Shopbot PR. You modified and removed as many of the Shopbot's weak features as you could and called it the MechMate. Your design was vastly superior to the Shopbot. In the meantime, Shopbot threw away that faulty design and produced the PRT series and then the PRS series. Their improvements remedied many of the original design failures.

I'm no mechanical engineer, but I have seen and used the PRS series that are now on the market. They have no chatter. Their cut quality is excellent. They are vastly superior to the PR machines.

To ignore the fact that people can improve on a design and to require people to NOT improve on a design is to think that no other design has merit.

Everything that we own, including our cars, our furniture, our homes and our appliances are constantly improved. We don't drive Henry Ford's Model T anymore, nor would we be content to drive his much improved Model A. So it is with CNC routers. One design is tried and tested. Improvements are made and another design evolves, That design is tried and tested and the cycle continues. Some ideas work. Many do not.

There are many variations of electronics used with the MechMate. All variations are discussed and allowed. There are many different routers and spindles being used. All variations were discussed and allowed. There have been machines build with rack and pinion, at least one with linear rails, at least one with a chain drive, and at least one with a belt. All variations were allowed and discussed.

If someone wants to use a vertical gantry rather than a horizontal gantry, why would you be offended? He is the one sticking his neck on the line. He is the one willing to buy the materials. He is the one willing to put in the time and effort to see if a vertical gantry works better than a horizontal gantry.

If this forum is only about building an improved Shopbot PR, then that is fine. I always thought that this forum was about making a better CNC router and that the time and effort and expense expended by the experimenters would be appreciated. Personally, I find the motor mount design that Kim submitted to be interesting.

I just spent five days in the hospital in intensive care. Today was my first day home. Maybe I'm still not thinking clearly yet. If so, I apologize, but I remember very well all the times that I went to bat for you on the Shopbot forum and stood with you when you suggested improvements to the Shopbot. Many of us were greatly offended with the way you were treated. It is that same sense of fair play that generates posts like this. Kim has a different idea. It may be better. It may be worse. We'll never know if he is censored.

[bradm]

So, in one of my other lives, I moderate real world discussions among technical people in obnoxiously generic hotel conference rooms.

I recognize fully that I have no power to do this, but could we please have a 30 minute, er 30 hour, recess to allow a little back channel debate and perhaps even alignment? It seems to me the sides are closer together than apart.

Due respect to all. :)

[MetalHead]

Moved the rest of this thread into its own topic here.

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=46921&postcount=1

[IN-WondeR]

I got a message that a few inhere still wanted me to make updates here.
So here's a small update.

Got all my pullys and belts for my machine the other day, today I got all holes bored to correct dimensions, and 3 axles made for them. Enjoy.

[IN-WondeR]

A small but sicnifigant update. My new Gantry design is now rolling.. Damn it's huge. :-D Just the way I want it.

[myousry]

hi kim can you post the dwg or dxf file of your design
i am interested in your design i hope that can make if this will be the new mechmate to support more than 4 axis may be 5 or 6 axis . thanks a lot

[IN-WondeR]

I'm not sure it's going to be the new mechmate as it does not ressemble the original design anymore. At this time, there is no DXF files for upload as I'm making things as I go along.
At some point there might be a set of DXF files but for now, everything is cosumized to the existing table I already have.

[myousry]

who said that a new design has to ressemble the old one . You may end up with a more efficient and effective design than the previous one ,that can avoid lots of missed things which can be hardly applied to the old design.keep on your work, and good luck

[IN-WondeR]

A small update today again.
I have finally gotten my Gantry painted, and mountet. Also the Yaxis linear Rails have been mounted, they look awesome. Test fitted the Gearing system today, again, Awesome. Did have to make an adjustment because the belts are a bit too long afterall. So a running pulley made of 4 small skate bearings have been added. Works beautifully. Enjoy

[smreish]

Looks a lot like a Multicam (or Shotbot alpha)

[myousry]

go ahead :) kim i already bought theses supported round rail size 20mm and open linear bearing 1 month ago from zap automation. I like your design , I am watching your progress,good luck

[IN-WondeR]

Hehe Sean. You are dead on. I have based this Gantry on the Multicam version. The z axis will also be almost 300mm wide to accomidate both a spindle and a drill type tool that I have not yet figured out how should look. :-D

The Rails are very nice, and at an affordable price. If you see any of the China made routers, most of them actually are made with these linear Rails.

[Robert M]

This is nice of you to take your time & share your progress, congrats
Robert ;)

[KenC]

Good job!

[IN-WondeR]

Well, now I'm almost at the end construction wise, still need to setup all of my electronics again, but that's just a small obstacle. :-D
Here's a few renderings of my z axis. It will be quite heavy. Enjoy

[javeria]

Kim - how are you making sure that the pinion is engaged always with the rack, in mechmate its the spring leverage mechanism do you have something like the off centre (eccentric hub) for the big timing pulley you have mounted??

just wondering!

[IN-WondeR]

No this time I'm trying to use a fixed position for the pinion. So All calculations have been made to make sure the pinion is in the correct position at all times, pinions have been made to specs in order, so those should run 100% true along the axis. I have already testet it on my x axis where it is made in the same manor, and it works perfectly. I have adopted the function from Industrial made machines where they also do not have any spring action to hold it in place.

[Alan_c]

Kim, the industrial machines are done as you say but they have spring loaded split pinions, this eliminates any lash between the pinion and rack, without it there WILL always be lash, you will be able to reduce it to a point, but without the spring loading its unavoidable..

[IN-WondeR]

I have worked with several different machines in the industry, and I have seen several without any spring loaded action. But I'll see how it will work out, maybe I'll make another set up uprights for belt drive instead. I already have the parts for it just in case this design will not work. :-D

[Robert M]

they have spring loaded split pinions :confused:
Got my curiosity on that…..
Can someone bring some photos of this ?
Robert ;)

[Gerald D]

http://www.brighthub.com/engineering/mechanical/articles/65169.aspx

[Robert M]

Tks ;)

[IN-WondeR]

Good point gerald. However, this is the helical track from the multicam, and that's not spring loaded as far as I can tell.

[Gerald D]

You don't a spring to make something springloaded. Sometimes you just use the flex in the mounting to keep a load on the system.

[IN-WondeR]

A bit more has happend now. My Y-Car have been mounted, and also the Y rack and pinion system. Working perfectly as it was supposed to. I love when things are going together as they were intended to do. :-D
Enjoy

[KenC]

Will you have any kind of measures to seal the linear bearings from dust? They are infamous for dust choking...

[IN-WondeR]

I will be having some kind of dust extraction made at some time, probably a Bill Pentz Cyclone, maybe I'll try and make a rolling curtain in front of the rails to keep dust away. I have however not figured out how to do that yet. :-D

[IN-WondeR]

THE BEAST LIVES......

I finally got everything hooked up, motors tuned and so on, and now it have already planed the surface of the table. Next up, I'm going to make my own Cable Carriers from recycled Plastic sheets. :-D

I have a small video on youtube for you guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-zbHE3OYKQ

The reason for the change in sound as it planes, is that the ends of the table have been turned around, so now It's has zero position diagonal to the old zero.

Enjoy

[riesvantwisk]

Hello Kim,

that looks very nice. congrats with this success.

[myousry]

great machine kim i am also in the process of designing a similar machine to yours . i am really inspired by your design.can you add a 4th and 5th axis to it ?
as this will be so great ?

[Robert M]

Great & happy for you….that when up FAST :eek:
Keep us updated !
Robert ;)

[IN-WondeR]

Depending on the way you build it, then yes, a 4th and 5th axis could easily be made.
a 4th axis would easily be mounted on top of the surface. It will however only take the maximum dimension of the clearance of the gantry. I reused the table from before my machine was gutted by thieves, so I had to confine my self to the table size I already had. Who knows, in the future I might build another table setup so I can take a wider plate, or maybe a higher Gantry to take it to real 3D cutting.

[IN-WondeR]

Hello Robert..

Yeah, it went fast, but I also made the construktion quite easy with my puzzles on the build parts. All things did not need any allignment as it was made to fit together without having to measure anything.

[IN-WondeR]

And here's a picture of the entire machine. Almost completely finished now. Only a few things remaining, home switches and things like that.
The wires you see hanging loose underneath are the wires from the previous installation before the thieves were in my garage. :-(

[IN-WondeR]

Needed some cable carriers for my machine as I have not been able to find some at the right size and the right price... :-D
So I have embarced on making my own cable carriers in 6mm HDF.
This is my Solidworks rendering of the cable carrier. 42x80mm outisde and 30x68 inside. It can be scaled as wide as I want to.

[Robert M]

Nicly done KIM ....and in blue too :D

[bozona1]

Very nice machine and looks very solid too. I did the same thing but with PVC. I have never used HDF but wouldn't it be a bit on the heavy side for something like that?

keep up the good work.

Don

[IN-WondeR]

Hey Robert.

Yeah in MM blue also. Well almost MM blue. :-D

Don:

yeah the HDF will probably be a bit on the heavy side, but plastic sheets just aren't readily available here in Denmark for everybody. One has to be a registered company to buy from other registered companies.. I bet, if I lived in the states I would have everything come to me very easily.. :-D

[bozona1]

We in the sign industry call it Sintra. It comes in 3, 6 and 10mm thickness and is really nice for all sorts of things other than signs. :D

[IN-WondeR]

Alot have happend since my last post. Since I did not have any tension on my rack and pinion system, they have been replaced with a nice chain drive instead. This works better than I had anticipated.
I have also mounted my new 2.2kW China Spindle, and added the watercooling for it. All I need to do now, is add my VFD, and I'm almost set to go..

[PEU]

IMHO the chain for the spindle axis can do the trick but for moving the whole gantry I think it will need constant readjustments, looks smallish compared to the weight it need to move.

[myousry]

hi kim i tried to make a design similar to yours. if you have any suggestion
i will appreciate it so much, i didn't finish the base table yet. that doesn't mean i won't make a mechmate one but because i already have a cnc machine i am now making a renovation in it ,then i will go for mechmate thanks for sharing your thoughts

[myousry]

hi kim i really managed to draw the 2.2kw chinese spindle bracket with 2 different back lengths what's your opinion as the previous bracket was for the hitachi router

[IN-WondeR]

Hi Myusry

It's looking good.

I'm a bit been on finding out why you are using 2 square tubes to make the gantry. I don't know how large those tubes are, but it seems like they are quite thin. I would imagine it would bend a little over large lengths.
other than that I believe it looks very good.

The router mount should be with the large backplate instead of the smaller one. I have made only the mounts for the spindle, and not the backplate, My backplate is the z axis it self. I have thought of changing that so I can mount and dismount the whole router mount from the front instead of the back.

Kim

[IN-WondeR]

I found this last night. If this i a zero backlash system, then it's probably the best ready to install system I have seen until now...

http://leantechnik.com/english/seiteneng/mainframee.html

I'm not sure at the price on this, but it would greatly increase precision on any CNC router if it works as they sat it will. It comes in a variance of models, and can almost be used for all kinds of linear movement.

[normand blais]

Hi Kim
with this linear system what happen if something get stock .how will it disengage ?

[IN-WondeR]

It will not disengage. The Rails are not made for disengaging.
That feature is a Shopbot/Mechmate thing.

[myousry]

Hi Myusry

It's looking good.

I'm a bit been on finding out why you are using 2 square tubes to make the gantry. I don't know how large those tubes are, but it seems like they are quite thin. I would imagine it would bend a little over large lengths.
other than that I believe it looks very good.

The router mount should be with the large backplate instead of the smaller one. I have made only the mounts for the spindle, and not the backplate, My backplate is the z axis it self. I have thought of changing that so I can mount and dismount the whole router mount from the front instead of the back.

Kim

they are 4mm thick and the tube are 2 meter length each should i replace them . what is the right thickness for these 2 meter square tube so as not to get bend will working

[Allegheny]

The other concern I would have with a multi-part gantry - as opposed to a single large tube on which to mount the z-axis - is the difficulty in keeping everything in alignment. As configured, there are six pieces of tubing - the 2 main cross members, the two spacers holding them apart, and the two uprights holding that assembly to the x-axis carriages. Getting all those pairs of parts to the exact same size, holding them in position while welding, and then trying to later adjust for all the warping and twisting that WILL occur would be nearly impossible. I suppose you could do it with a mongo surface grinder, but going with the single tube is so much easier.

Just my $0.03 (have to account for inflation)

Brian
Taxachusetts

[myousry]

thanks brian i will try to multi-part gantry because of the MBA-15C Nema 23 motor mount
i bought from http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/mba15c-nema-motor-mount-p-316.html?cPath=74 and and the MGD 20 mm ball nut housing from http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/ball-housing-p-196.html?cPath=72 . so i have to have a clear path for the moving ballnut housing , using a single tube would be impossible. unless you want me to make a straight clear groove all over the single tube to clear the path for ballnut housing , but will this weaken it as it has taken a letter C shape ?
myousry

[Allegheny]

Hi myousry,

I see what you need to do. But there's more then one way to "skin a cat" as we say in the states.

How about spacing the ball screw mounts further from the gantry by putting some 1.0 cm (or 2.0 cm or whatever it takes) thick spacers between their bases and the face of the gantry so the moving portion will clear the face of the gantry? Seems to me that would be much simpler and accomplish the same goal.

Brian

[myousry]

Hi Brian
seems to me a good solution. the gantry length will be 2 meter .what's your suggestion about the thickness of the single tube?

[Allegheny]

Hi myousry,

While I wouldn't consider myself "metrically" challenged, I'm not all that familiar with common metric stock sizes. Looking at the gantry in post #197, I'd estimate it at 4x8" tubing, maybe even 5x10" or 12" (so 100 to 125mm wide x 200-300mm tall). I would think you'd want it to be at least 3mm thick, if not 4 to provide adequate strength but not to be so heavy as to retard movement by overburdening the x-axis steppers.

Hopefully, Kim will chime in and provide you with the dimensions of the tubing he used ....

Brian

[IN-WondeR]

The tube I used is 140x260mm and 6mm thick. So it's quite a heavy and strong one I have.
It would translate to around 5.5" x 10.5" and 1/4" thick. it's 1800mm long, or around 6feet. the tube alone weighs in at around 120 pounds. The whole gantry is around 230 punds. including the uptrights z axis and motors and so.. Perhaps a bit more.

[KenC]

sounds heavy...

[IN-WondeR]

Hi Ken..

Yeah it's heavy. After my breakin in the garage last year, I decided that it should be more difficuelt to remove my gantry this time, so I opted for some weight instead of totally redesigning my table also... For now, it's going to take atleast an hour or more to remove everything this time... Hopefully it will not be something I need to worry about, but one never knows. This time it's also insured...:D

[myousry]

thank you guys for your help i will take your consideration all your notes. i am going to search for the appropriate single tube with 1/4" thick as minimum. what's your minimum stepper motor oz on each side you have each side to move this heavy gantry with everything on it

[KenC]

Hi Kim,
It is a real surprise your unfortunate break-in incident has effect on your machine design!
Having more mass on the gantry surely will damp some vibration when doing aggressive cuts. Really looking forward to see how the motors will live up with the extra weight, which I have good faith that they will perform adequately, especially with the belt reduction..

[IN-WondeR]

The motors are rated 4.5Nm pr side. Running a 3.33:1 belt reduction, giving me almost 15Nm pr side of the gantry. The power is more than enough, my weak link at this time must be the chains. As said I have very little chatter when makin 90 degree turns, but it's very little, and hardly noticable. I'm trying to see if I can make a slight pause when chaning direction from x to y, the other way around is no problem. It's only when I change direction from x to y. For now I have not gotten CV to work as it should though. :(

[shaper]

Hi Myoursy

While the thickness is important from a bending perspective it's not he end of the story and infact the profile is atleast as important as the thickness. If you want to avoid deflection over the same span you don't necessarily need to go thicker but the profile Kim is suggesting will certainly will be stiff in almost any thickness over the span you are considering. I'm not sure what profile the SHS you have in the drawing is but the same effect could be reached by simply modifying your profile choice. This does not consider the vibration effects of the additional weight.

I do agree with Brian how ever that managing warpage in this kind of design is going to be difficult, but IMO this is relevant in the MM design also (else Gerald wouldn't have given us very good clear instructions on how the gantry should be welded up) and the same principles can be used in a design such as yours and the remainder could be shimmed out as it is in the MM design.

I'm planning a build similar in concept to you as I'm having trouble sourcing a 250mmx150mmx4mm beam similar to Kim's, hence I have been giving this a deal of thought also.

[IN-WondeR]

Well, a few flaws have surfaced in my design, and sadly, the bearing support idea I made for the pinion/pulley axle on the X axis, cannot take the strain, mostly because of the small area taking all those axial and thrust forces the 130kg gantry gives. So I will be making a set of gearboxes for the x axis, so I can get more support for the bearings over a larger area, rather than only 16mm. But, it cuts, and actually quite ok. Next up is my dust collection... :-D Enjoy

[KenC]

Very good finishing! Especially the relief carving.

[myousry]

hi kim i intend to add these gearboxes to my design
http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/gearboxes-planetary-c-66_67.html
i hope they help you. what do you think about their backlash ? do you know anyone else selling gearboxes with the least backlashes ? thanks for help
regarding the single tube design i found a metal wholesaler that sells these kind of these tubes it will 30cmx17cmx6mm thickness with a length 220cm. is it okay to go for it ? or there a fear from the bending issue ?
thanks a lot for your help

[Allegheny]

Ouch - that is a huge tube! The only bending I'd be worried about would be the support table! Would sure make for good dampening though. With such a heavy tube, I would think you'd need some serious gear/belt reduction on the x-axis motors.

Brian

[IN-WondeR]

Thank you Ken, I'm also quite happy with the finish. Only bad thing is the time it took to make the relief carving. Almost 1.5 hours, because of the chains I cannot carve like that with more than 1000mm/min, I would like to go up to atleast double that speed. The big sign I made, is made of Larch, and planed with the CNC it self. It turned out great.

Myousry
Those gearboxes look to me not to have zero backlash, they will be quite expensive when you add the low backlash option to the, that's another 50£ a piece. I would go for a belt reduction instead, that would probably do better than any gearbox you can find. I will be making a belt reduction for mine so I can have it pivot, and I can add tension to the rack&pinion setup.

Allegheny
Yes, it's a huge tube, but no bending issues on such a tube, but you need some serious power if you go that big, but you will not have any bending problems. Just make sure you make your basetable very very sturdy...

[PEU]

Saw this router and inmediatelly I remembered your design:

First thing I noticed is that the guides and the ballscrews did not use any protection for dust, and if you machined MDF you know that powder has the ability to reach unthinked places! I would cover them with something even with a vacuum system in place.

The gantry moves via a hiwin ballscrew (35 or 40mm diameter by the eye) on one side, uses the same motor as the other axis.

The gantry rides on 30mm hiwin rails three per side, gantry and Z are 20mm rails

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4622/img2066xu.jpg
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/5319/img2067f.jpg
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3239/img2068p.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5425/img2069f.jpg
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5298/img2070f.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/131/img2071k.jpg

The base is filled with concrete or epoxy mix for more rigidity.

Overall it looks like a solid machine, my only concern is dust on the linear guides and ballscrews.


Pablo

[IN-WondeR]

That's actually a Nice machine you found there... And yes, MDF dust is very persistant and is the worst thing when cutting on a CNC, but with a good dust management system, then it should not be that big a problem. Right now my Cyclone build haven't been finished yet, so I'm cutting very little, but when I get it done, then I should be able to take all dust away from the machine when cutting.

But again, very nice little machine you found there, but the robot is a bit malplaced. :-D

[Allegheny]

I like the built-in bottle/cup holder :D !

Brian
Taxachusetts

[PEU]

That's actually a Nice machine you found there... And yes, MDF dust is very persistant and is the worst thing when cutting on a CNC, but with a good dust management system, then it should not be that big a problem. Right now my Cyclone build haven't been finished yet, so I'm cutting very little, but when I get it done, then I should be able to take all dust away from the machine when cutting.

But again, very nice little machine you found there, but the robot is a bit malplaced. :-D

Their booth is small for the amount of machines, so they put the robot over the table, and it loads demo boards that are held in place by a suction cup

[IN-WondeR]

Just added new gearboxes for my x axis, and the y axis have now been added a ballscrew. (picture missing)
Just wanted to show of these beefy gearboxes I made. :)

[IN-WondeR]

Workstation setup on the machine instead of a standalone table..
just finished it today.

[javeria]

Hi Kim - where have you installed the Rack, - i assumed that you used the gearbox for the chain, then just read back about the rack- somme more pics

[IN-WondeR]

In post #233 you can just see the rack under the blue lip next to the gearbox, there the rack is mounted upside down.

[IN-WondeR]

Well, I finally got my gearboxes and my ballscrew mounted and all the motors hookes up again. Damn it's great to see the big old blue beast move again.
Finally I can go on and get things started, get the machine properly tuned and tested before any kind of production starts.

Enjoy some of the final pictures I will post on this forum. A few parts is still not finished, like the home switches, but they will be finished soon enough.

[danilom]

It really looks MASSIVE! Well done

[PEU]

It really looks great Kim, congratulations, please share more photos! I could really fit a machine like that one at my office :)

[IN-WondeR]

Danilom

It is massive, but still it only weighs around 700kg in total. The main framework weighs around 300kg, the tabletop weighs a massive 200 kg, that's the floating part and the 40mm MDF. The gantry with all it's fixings weighs almost 200kg, so all in all around 700kg, but it's the way it's put together that makes it so sturdy as it is, there's absolutely no rock and roll in the machine when it moves, it's steady as a rock.
I made it as a standalone machine with no external parts on it, and it has so far paid of, the entire machine with cables, drives, motors and so on, can be moved in one piece, no need for anything to be unplugged first. Only thing that will be coming from outside the machine is an extension cord, and an airhose when I get that added also.

[gixi]

I must recognize that you inspire me a lot. Specially the way to fit one piece in other. Welding becomes a kid's play.
Here are a pic of my table:

[IN-WondeR]

Hey Marius

Correct, puzzle connections make it very easy to weld things up true and straight.. Your new table also looks good, looks a bit small though, are you downscaling from full size to smaller size?

[gixi]

Yes it's a small size 800x1600 working surface but is for small pieces and will have an indexer.

[IN-WondeR]

Very nice, I'm also looking into adding an indexer at some point, but it's still on the drawing table so to speak. :D

[PEU]

Yes it's a small size 800x1600 working surface but is for small pieces and will have an indexer.

Did you modeled it before assembly? that size, maybe a little smaller, is what I have in mind, if you can share it it would be great. Very Nice too!!

[Allegheny]

Hi Kim,

I am slowly getting closer to starting a build and the more I look at this thread, the more convinced I become that linear bearing slides are the way to go.

I was wondering if you could tell us what size your used for each axis? SBR12 or 16, and maybe even 20 would seem to be too small for the X-axis, so I would guesstimate that you used either SBR25 or 30 for the X and Y, and 16 or 20 for the Z-slides.

In retrospect, given the performance of the machine, would you have gone larger, or smaller, with those slides? And why?

Also, three meter lengths of slides, if even available, are exceedingly expensive so most people just butt shorter lengths together. If you used this latter configuration, did you just simply butt them together or did you have the opposing ends precision bored (usually in a lathe) for dowel pins?

Cheers,

Brian
Taxachusetts

[danilom]

Regarding the linear bearings be sure to watch this very informative video.
It will help you see the needed precision for mounting rails and their use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq4Pis6Zhf4

[Allegheny]

Regarding the linear bearings be sure to watch this very informative video.
It will help you see the needed precision for mounting rails and their use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq4Pis6Zhf4

That was very interesting. The main take away message for me was the ability of the round rails to self-align. Given that our machines may not be perfectly flat straight and/or square (especially after welding), square rails may not be the better choice.

Thanx,

Brian

[IN-WondeR]

Hi Kim,

I am slowly getting closer to starting a build and the more I look at this thread, the more convinced I become that linear bearing slides are the way to go.

I was wondering if you could tell us what size your used for each axis? SBR12 or 16, and maybe even 20 would seem to be too small for the X-axis, so I would guesstimate that you used either SBR25 or 30 for the X and Y, and 16 or 20 for the Z-slides.

In retrospect, given the performance of the machine, would you have gone larger, or smaller, with those slides? And why?

Also, three meter lengths of slides, if even available, are exceedingly expensive so most people just butt shorter lengths together. If you used this latter configuration, did you just simply butt them together or did you have the opposing ends precision bored (usually in a lathe) for dowel pins?

Cheers,

Brian
Taxachusetts

Hi Allehegny

The rails I used for my X axis is 20mm rails, and the y and z axis is only 16mm rails.. They are more than strong enough to hold the forces of the machine when in motion and when cutting. After I have fitted my gearboxes, my rack and pinions and my ballscrew, the performance of the machine it self have been significantly improved...
I have not yet had time to do some good quality testing yet, because of my new job, so I can't really tell you about the precision, but I expect it to be something around 0.1-0.3mm precision on all axis.. Which is more than enough for my needs.

The X-rails by the way is full length of 3meters, no butting here... :D

[KenC]

Hi Kim,
how about dust getting into the linear bush？ Linear bush are notorious with thier dust proofing characteristics as far as I know.