I have some questions about the rails - NJ,USA

[cvriv.charles]

Hello everyone. I am looking to build a cnc router. I have never designed nor built a router before. I would LOVE to design a cnc router of my own,... but I am kind of in a hurry. In a hurry in the sence that I dont want to waste time designing. I want to get right to the build process.

For the longest time I havent had the space to do anything really. But my girlfriend and I are getting a house with a really big detached garage so now here's my chance to shine.

By nature I like to do everything myself. Design and build. But i think I will sit the design phase out for this build. I dont want to waste any time.

So I have a few questions:

1: On average,... what does it cost to build one of these mech mates?!?!

2: What is the overall footprint size? I assume it hacks up 4' x 8' sheets?

3: What skill level is reccomended? Not that I'm doubting myself. Im just curious as to what people think.

4: How are most of the parts made? Do you guys contract the parts out to individuals with cnc plasma cutters?!?! Or do you just contract someone to build it for you?

5: Whats are some of the most important tools one should have to errect a MechMate? I have some tools and machine. A large drill press, a 140amp mig, angle grinder, and a ton of other various stuff. I am ready to buy what I need to get the job done.

6: I have never read through plans before. I am a bit worried that I will get lost easily. How do the plans for this rate?!?!

I think thats it for now. Thanks!

[javeria]

Charles - we get the same question from all new users - request you to go through the forum -

Each one of your question has been answered multiple number of times in the forum.

RGDS
IRfan

[domino11]

Charles,
Ifans comment is a good suggestion, read read read. There is a lot of info here and sifting through it will take some time. Most people spend a fair bit of time sifting through this sites postings to get a good idea of how the machine works.

to help a little more though,

1. $4000 to $10000 depending on what you have on hand and what you can do yourself. Check out the build threads of guys who have built the router for more info.

2. You can make the Mechmate for any table size see
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63

3. Check out the personal build threads.

4. Laser cut parts are available from forum members. See
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70

5. Check out the personal build threads.
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78

6. Look at the plans first and then ask questions on what you do not understand. Once the build threads are read after looking at the plans I think a lot of your questions will be answered.

:)

[cvriv.charles]

Ok thank you. Sorry for not searching.

[domino11]

Charles ,
No problem, take a look around, we will be here when you have more questions. :)

[cvriv.charles]

Charles ,
No problem, take a look around, we will be here when you have more questions. :)

Thank you sir. I'm actually going to create a log right away even though I am not ready to build at the moment. Maybe within the next few months once I've landed a house. What I really want to do is go through the plans and create models of the all the parts so I have a good understanding of how everything is so when it comes time to build I can just get it done with no delays. Plus you guys could use the models to help out others. That is if someone hasnt already created an accurate 3D model of it. Thanks again.

[Alan_c]

See here (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183)

[cvriv.charles]

Thanks. I want to create my own model though. This way I know what every part looks like and how exactly it's all assembled.

[cvriv.charles]

I have to ask. Here's the deal. I dont know about you guys but I have this problem. Creativity. Originality. Perfectionism. It's a sickness for me. Literally.

I really want to design my own router. But I am clueless when it comes to a lot of things. But a lot of things I am aware of or atleast on the brink of being aware of. I lack the experience so I just dont know how things are.

I love the MechMate design. I really do. Someone from another forum actually pointed me to the mechmate because they saw that what I wanted was very similar and that also, I needed a lot of help too.

I actually broke down for a second and gave up on designing a router for myself. I wanted to just build a mechmate to get my router done. But my sickness has been eating at me for the past few days. I actually learned a lot just by reading though this forum and eyeing the pics available here. I haven't really gone through the MM plans yet because I kind of got lost real quick browsing through them. But just seeing how the MM was designed,... it answered a lot of my questions. This is what my sickness has been feeding off of.

My question is would you guys be willing to help me even though I am designing my own? How do I explain this,... geez. What I want is very similar to the MechMate. It's just that I learned a lot from the MechMate so for me to go ahead and design my router using knowledge that I gained from the MechMate and users from the MechMate forums without mentioning my intentions doesn't seem right. So I am asking if it's ok.

I'm trying to think of it as a heavily modifed MechMate. Heavily. I know that other users modify the MechMate it's just that I dont know where I fit in?!??! Why would I want to heavily modify something thats already proven? I dont know. Thats my problem. Most of the time I like to design from scratch. But for this,... I just dont have enough knowedge of CNC.

So would it be ok?!?! Please:( I could post at another cnc forum but I actually like it here. I'm not just saying that either. I already had a bad experience at another forum from asking to many questions.

Thanks.

[Gerald D]

Charles, we cannot give you a general "yes we will help" if we don't know what is involved. So, ask your questions here in your own thread and see the reaction. It is not going to help you to start a new thread every time you have a question that is distracting to the "standard" build (you might have noticed your most recent post is no longer in its own thread)

[cvriv.charles]

Ok,... so I will just start posting the models I create here so you guys can get a good idea of exactly what im trying to do. I will keep all my questions in here.

Sorry about creating another thread. I was actually reamed out in another forum for asking to mnay question within a single thread. They wanted a new thread for every question I had. So yea.

Thanks.

[cvriv.charles]

First few questions. The hot rolled shapes such as angle, square tube, channel, etc,... how do their dimensions hold up from one side to the other?!?! One end slightly larger than the other?!?! How straight are they at long lengths? Would it be better to buy fewer really long lengths and cut what I need out of them or buy several smaller lengths, one for each part and just cut off the excess?!?!

[Gerald D]

The final alignment of the rails is done with shims - no need to assume you would be scrapping a lot of material.

[cvriv.charles]

When I loaded the DXF files into Inventor the dimensions are slightly off compared to what I seeing in the PDF file. For instance,... when I load 1020451PC.dxf there are two dimensions visible, "423.9 mm" and "524.9 mm". In one of the PDF files the part shows "424" and "525"? If I turn down the precision I'll get 424mm and 525mm but that doesnt mean it's 424mm and 525mm, thats just what its showing. Are the parts really 423.9mm and 524.9mm or no?

[Gerald D]

Would it make a difference to you if it were 423.9 as opposed to 424? As far as I am concerned, after the sub-contractor has laser-cut it, and you have pushed it together and welded it, there is no concern for 0.1mm. How would you measure that difference?

[cvriv.charles]

Oh I know that. But I mean,... I was just wondering why it wasn't just plain old 424?!?! I thought maybe I did something wrong in Inventor or something. But all in all it's suppose to be whole numbers then I guess.

[Gerald D]

When I sit and design, I don't constrain myself to get the major dimensions exactly rounded off to the nearest whole millimeter. And when I make print sheets of those drawings for the guys in the workshop, I don't give them a false sense of needing to use anything more than a standard tape measure.

[Leko]

I thought you were going to build your own model to learn from. Why are you importing things?

[cvriv.charles]

Not only am I learning CNC, I am also trying learn CAD. So far,... my ideas aren't making much sence. As said before I am using the MM design as a means of determining whether my ideas make sense. Here's what I was trying to do a bit ago(2 or so weeks):

http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_008-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_008.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_009-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_009.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_010-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_010.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_011-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_011.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_012-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_012.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_013-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_013.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_014-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_014.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_015-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-04-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009/cvriv_cncrtr_001_05-10-2009_015.jpg)

I want two of those. One on each side of the spindle. The spindle would be held on both sides. I ditched this design because I would end up having huge problems with welding deformation. That and I dont know if it makes sense now that I saw the MM. I noticed that the MM only rolls on one rail per side per axis except for the Z axis. Before seeing the MM i would of though that was weird but now I am thinking differentely. Having one rail per side per axis is a lot easier because it less to align. I dont know.

[lumberjack_jeff]

As you've alluded to, that design would have numerous problems. It's essentially the parallel gas-pipe design, (such as Joes' 2006) but made from angle. Joe's machine is excellent, but has a fundamental constraint in the flex of the rails. The rungs of the ladder shown in the drawing above don't mitigate that flex relative to the rest of the machine, they just keep the rails semi-parallel with one another.

I can't say that I think strict adherence to the plans is absolutely vital (my table will be a decidedly non-MM design) but on my machine everything above the X-rails is going to be 100% blue MechMate.

I say this as a retired mechanical engineer with 30 years of experience 25 of which was in CAD. I couldn't do it better than the plans Gerald has drawn. After I've built my first one, I might be able to suggest some improvements, but as of right now, I"m not going to reinvent the wheel.

I don't see the exercise of redrawing the plans in your 3-d cad program of choice as a waste of time; I think it helps to build it on the screen before building it of steel. But speaking for myself, I don't have the knowledge to improve on the current design.

Let me put it this way, if you're using the MM plans as a benchmark to determine if your ideas make sense, isn't it more logical to just use that design? All the ideas will eventually converge on the benchmark anyway.

[cvriv.charles]

I agree. I'll just use the MM design then. Initially I just wanted a router to do what I have to do. But once I saw the machine I got all excited to build my own. Maybe one day I'll play around an build something of my own. Anyways.

[PEU]

I agree with Jeff, no need to reinvent the wheel... I still did not start with my build, but to learn something about the mechanics, I modelled it in solidworks, go search my threads, you will find the model for download. There is also a sketch-up model, look around.
Also read-read-read you will be familiar with a lot of details when you finally start to cut/weld/bend and screw :)


Pablo

[cvriv.charles]

It think I still want to try and modify a few things. For example,... having two z-axis's one on each side of the spindle. I will model that first before doing it.

I seriously nee to try and figure out why I cant work with the dxf's as a sheet metal part in inventor. The one part I tried wont fold.

[Gerald D]

... having two z-axis's one on each side of the spindle. . . . .

The standard design, with the single z-axis, has the whole z-assemby off-center in the y-car, with the spindle center about 100mm towards the y-motor. The space left behind it will accommodate another full z-assembly, bu then you need to figure out your dust hose routing, and whether you need a second motor on the other side of the y-car. Also, you need to lengthen your table top and x-rails/beams if you put a second z-assembly in there.

[cvriv.charles]

Yeah I figured that. Well,... I thogh once I have the standard MM modeled that I would go ahead and try to get a second Z in there. I was thinking about completely mirroring the z assembly that already there. That would mean two of everything for the whole z axis. About dust collection,... I'll get something in there. no doubt.

I have to do some reading up on sheet metal parts for inventor. its a bit more complicated then I thought. Not a problem though.

[cvriv.charles]

Ok,... hows this look?!?! Here's the first part modeled. Does it look right? I didnt know what bend radius I was suppose to use so I just used the sheet metal thickness of 3/16"(5mm). I can make it smaller but didnt know if I should. The inner crease of an actual part, is it very small? Like so small that it doesnt even look like a radius?

Anyways,...

[Gerald D]

That looks fine. I draw the inner radius as the sheet thickness,

[cvriv.charles]

That looks fine. I draw the inner radius as the sheet thickness,

Ok excellent. thanks.

[Gerald D]

See: Bending of steel plates - how it is done and calculated (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438)

[cvriv.charles]

Wow I was just going to ask you about that! I just got done modeling a few parts where both sides get bent at 90deg. I couldnt figure out how to get the inner and outer length to be exact. atleast without moving the bend lines. I knew that shouldnt be done because that wehere you put them. Now for instance, part [10 20 451 W] after being bent has a specified inner length of 50mm. I got 49.214mm. Now I remember what you said before about being able to measure with measuring tape. So I left it alone. Am I correct?

I actually have to change the first two parts that are bent at 60deg because I had the bend start at the bend line.

[Gerald D]

In real life, it is plenty close enough, because the bending guys are going to give you an inside radius that is all over the show.

[cvriv.charles]

Ok, thanks.

[cvriv.charles]

Hey whats the closest imperial thats being used for the 3mm thick parts? .120in or .125in?

[jhiggins7]

11 guage Standard Steel is 3.0378 mm.
.125 inches equals 3.175 mm

[cvriv.charles]

I know but 1/8" thick materials is a more common size right?!?! I'll just do 11ga then.

[domino11]

11ga is pretty common with the laser cutters. That is what I supply with the kits I have gotten cut with no problems. :)

[Gerald D]

The steel producers have a tolerance on their supplied thickness - don't be surprised if 11ga turns out to be thicker than 1/8", or vice versa. For some sheets, the mills sell on weight, then they roll to the thicker side of the tolerances. If they are selling on nominal thickness, they roll to the thinner end of the tolerance.

[cvriv.charles]

That makes sence. Always in their favor;) I would love to say that im almost done modeling the MM parts but thats just not the case. I have to constrain and dimension all the parts which is kind of time consuming. Also, I found some geometric errors, overlapping lines etc. Probably the aftermath of importing the dxf's into inventor. I think. I dont know. I just hope that all the dimension and everything is true. Meaning I hope nothing was altered during importation. Thats why I asked you about he dimensions before.

I have several parts complete. I'm holding out till I have them all done. I'll post the indvidual parts and then assembled. This way newbies like myself can get a good look at all the parts individually.

I am still clueless as to whats needed to build one of these. I mean I have an idea and Im starting to unstand how to read the plans. This is all because of the modeling of the parts. When Im done here I'll know exactly what needs to be done. For now I have to figure out whats going on with these tow particular parts. The keep crashing my inventor.

[cvriv.charles]

I finished modeling the profile and bends:) All of them. I modeled everything that was in the DXF file folder. What a learning experience that was! Learned some about the MechMate and a lot of Inventor. Anyways,.... enjoy:)

cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009

Hi:) Here are ALL of the MM profiles cut and bent:)

1020451PC.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_000-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_000.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_001-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_001.jpg)

1020452PC.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_002-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_002.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_003-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_003.jpg)

1020456PA.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_004-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_004.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_005-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_005.jpg)

1020457PA.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_006-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_006.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_007-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_007.jpg)

1020458PA.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_008-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_008.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_009-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_009.jpg)

1030422PD.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_010-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_010.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_011-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_011.jpg)

1030450PG.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_012-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_012.jpg)

1030455PB.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_013-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_013.jpg)

1040372PA.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_014-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_014.jpg)

1040387PA.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_015-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_015.jpg)

1040432PF.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_016-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_016.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_017-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_017.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_018-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_018.jpg)

1040434PD.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_019-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_029.jpg)

1060215PB.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_020-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_020.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_021-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_021.jpg)

1060315PA.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_022-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_022.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_023-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_023.jpg)

1060325PA.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_024-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_024.jpg)

M130332PA.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_025-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_025.jpg)

M510312PB.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_026-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_026.jpg)

M510314PB.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_027-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_027.jpg)

M510322PC.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_028-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_028.jpg)

M510324PA.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_029-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_029.jpg)

M610115PB.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_030-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_030.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_031-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_031.jpg)

M610116PB.dxf
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_032-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_032.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_033-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009_033.jpg)

So yea. These were made to specifcation using the DXF file's that come with the MM plans. Imperial thicknesses and metric dimensions. I have to make tiny alteration here and there so I could get the parts to bend within the software. No biggy. I am going to start modeling the rest of the components now. I think all the remaining components are actually made by the MM builder. After that I can finally assemble. And then after that once I get my garage I can start building it for real.

[Gerald D]

Part 10 40 432 looks like it is missing the notch where 10 40 434 fits in?

[cvriv.charles]

What notch? There wasn't a notch in the dxf. I'll check again.

[cvriv.charles]

Oh I know what notch you mean. It's there just a bad shot it . I updated one of the pics about so that you can see it better.

[cvriv.charles]

cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009

Here's an update. According to the plans but with a few changes. Check it out.

Here's how I would like my table to be. The plans call for the 8 cross beams(1010302SB) to be welded to the x beams(1010322SA) because it's permanent. That way you dont have to worry about the able going out of square. Which is good because thats one less thing to worry about. BUT! like some,... I need to be able to dismantle this machine for transport. What you see in the image below weighs about 650lbs. Thats according to Inventor. AND! Thats only what you see! LOL.
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_000-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_000.jpg)

So instead of welding these 8 beams I am going to do what many others are doing. Im going to bolt them.
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_001-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_001.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_002-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_002.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_003-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_003.jpg)

To keep help keep the table square,... I and going to weld a support bar across the ends of the beams, in sets of 4. These support bars will hold the cross beams together so that they are square. When the x beams are bolted to them they will be square with each other. Once the table surface is bolted down to the cross beams, it will help hold the table square too. Plus the legs of the table will help to hold the table square also.
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_004-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_004.jpg)

Forgive my Inventor rendering abilites,... im still trying to figure that out. In this pic you can see the inventor welds for the end plate(1010324GA) for the x beam(1010322SA).
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_005-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_005.jpg)

Here's the bolts that will hold the x beam to the cross beams. 16 x 3/8"-16 heavy hex bolts. I have to use beveled washer because the steel channel has an internal taper. It very dark. Sorry.
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_006-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_006.jpg)

Im using 3/8"-16 socket head bolts for the table. These bolts will screw directly into the the cross beams for ease of removal.
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_007-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_007.jpg)

See:) Still kind of dark.
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_008-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_008.jpg)

Here's the underside. You can see the two sections of cross beams. Kind of like pallets. Really heavy pallets.
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_009-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_009.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_010-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_010.jpg)

Here they are alone.
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_011-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_011.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_012-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_012.jpg)

I dont want to weld to much because I dont want to deform the metal to much. I think i'll be fine with this. The very end with the flat side facing out gets welded all around the channels shape. The remaining 3 only get a top and bottom weld. That should be good. It's not like those support bars are going to be taking on a load.
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_013-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_013.jpg) http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_014-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_014.jpg)

And thats it for now:)
http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_015-180.jpg (http://www.theelitemodder.com/worklogs/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009/cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009_015.jpg)

Now this isn't my final size. I will know for sure its final size once I build the gantry.

[domino11]

Charles,
Once you have the spoilboard bolted to the table, I dont think you will need the extra braces. Quite a few people have done it this way with no racking problems.

[Gerald D]

Charles, you are trying to solve problems that don't exist. Those flat bars on the end the end of the cross-suports will add hardly any "anti-racking" - drop that welded assembly during transport and it will be out. The support board does a far better job of anti-racking.

Socketed cap screws, for the support board, have heads that are too high, too hard and too small a shoulder. You shouldn't use them in wood without washers to increase the bearing area, which will make them even taller. Too hard?......well, you are probably going to hit them with a cutter one day......

Have you seen this thread?: Re-alignment after dis-assembly - getting all parts into position at the new location (http://mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1329)

[cvriv.charles]

Ok. I will take supports out. But someone here said that you dont agree with bolts the table together because of how easy the table can be knocked out of square.

About the socket head bolts,... whats the maximum depth I can drill into a 3/4" thick board? In your plans you have a 30mm thick board? There are low profile socket head bolts. But they for sure need washers seeing that their shoulders are even smaller. With the washer the overall height of the bolt/ washer will be about the same as a regular socket head bolt. What bolts are usually used?

I read about that thread you posted. I would rather just use a square to realign everything.

I think I will go ahead and create 1010324GA equiv's for the 302SB's. I dont like the open channel look at all. That was another reason for the support. To act as a side skirt kind of.

[smreish]

Charles,
I can attest that my bolt together gets hit all the time by people, equipment, pallet jacks, occasional forklift - and still remains square. The spoil board holds the alignment fine.

For hardware to hold down the spoilboard, I actually use a large #14 Phillips head pan machine screw. (although plans call for different- use what I had in stock as usually and is Low profile enough. )

My spoilboard cutting profile in Mach shows a 3/8" depth for the countersink.

Unless you use a furniture style hex head with a low profile truss head, you may not find a hex head cap that will work as well as you hope for.

Good luck,
Sean

[cvriv.charles]

I was actually thinking about using 3/8" - 16 countersunk socket head. It has a large shoulder and I can sink it a good amount. As of now I have about .25 from bolt face to spoilboard surface and about .25" of spoilboard left. If this is not good then I'll just go down to .25" bolts instead. I'm going to post new pics soon.

[Gerald D]

I started a new thread for the screwing down issue over here:
Screwing the table top to the cross support beams (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1768)

[cvriv.charles]

#1: I was wondering if it would be better to use 3/8" angle instead of 1/4"? I have been scouring the forum to find a pic thats kind of orthograpic of a bearing on a 1/4" rail so I can see how much the bearing overhangs the rail. I dont mean to be annoying. Im just curious about stuff like this.

#2: I would like to drill and tap my x beams to mount the x rails. The plans call for 1/2" holes for both rail and beam. Whats up with that? There's no real explanation for it. Im thinking for bolts to pass through and for rail adjustability? Am I right?

#3. The proxy holes for the proxy switch. It says optional. What is it and how many of your use it?

Thats it for now.

[Gerald D]

#2: It is for adjustment of the rails to get them straight and parallel to each other.

[jhiggins7]

Answer #1. 3/8" angle would be an overkill. The bearings ride fine on the 1/4". Also, you'll be adjusting (flexing) the rail to get the Gantry and Y-Car to ride smoothly, so the thicker rails would be more difficult to align.

Answer #2 Check drawing 10 10 300, note 8. You'll notice that the Main Beams are tapped 8 mm. I used 5/16" and bought the bolts at Tractor Supply by the pound.

Answer #3 The proxy switch is a means of feeding back to Mach3, electronically, the position of the Gantry. I believe there are 6 of them (4 for X rails and 2 for Y rails). I did not install them, but I drilled the holes in case I wanted the install them in the future. There are instructions on the Forum for how to align the Gantry using the mechanical stops.

Hope this helps. Happy building.:)

[smreish]

John,
Just a bit of semantics, but the proxy does not feed back actual location to Mach3 continuously, but only when the gantry arrives at the end-of-travel location. It's just a limit switch with benefits! (like sensing if the machine derails, etc.)

Some readers of the forum may interpret you last post as a "encoder" type feedback which is not the case. I know you know the difference, but others new to the forum may not.

Just a note to keep it clear. :)

Sean

[Gerald D]

Answer #3 I believe there are 6 of them (4 for X rails and 2 for Y rails).

Those are the number of holes at the rail ends - the number of proximity switches is half of that.

[cvriv.charles]

Ok. And about the drilling of holes in the rack,... I see two holes one at each end. But as an option you can drill/ tap from the back side 10mm deep and do that more than twice through out the length of the rack. My question is how would you bolt the rack to the rail when the M6 holes are right up on the leg?

I would love to do it that way but im just not seeing how you would bolt the rack up like that. Only one bolt at each end seems a bit,.... not enough. doesn't the rack sag in the middle?

So I am gathering that the proxy switches replace the x rail stopper block? The proxy switch tells m3 that that gantry is nearing 0,0 and thats how the gantry is squared?

[bradm]

Charles, the racks are primarily secured with high adhesive double sided tape. The screws at the ends serve to keep it from wandering, and to give the tape a chance to bond.

The proxy switches do not replace the stopper blocks! Ideally, they prevent you from ever hitting the blocks. If for some reason your proxy should fail, the stopper block saves you from a disaster.

[J.R. Hatcher]

I'm the type person that will read for several hours or re-read something several times to understand. Then if I still don't understand I will ask the questions. Charles are you sure you're reading enough??? Some of the questions you're asking are right there to be read.:confused:

[Doug_Ford]

Charles,

I did not add proximity switches to my machine and after several months, I have no intention of adding them. I agree that 3/8" rails would be overkill and would be harder to straighten. The longer I have my MM the more convinced I become that Gerald is a genius. I've said this several times before but I'll say it again. If you follow his instructions to the letter, I guarantee you won't be disappointed. The only disappointing parts of my machine are where I deviated from what Gerald told us to do.

[cvriv.charles]

I am reading but I am very new to reading blueprints like this. I am kind of jumping around a bit. There are some things I am a bit confused about such as the instructions for 10 10 246 D and 10 10 300 D. I'm trying to picture what he means and I think im right but,...

10 10 246 D:

1: Scribe the 46mm line on the x rails. OK.

2: Determine a hole pattern for the rail, center punch and drill 6.8mm holes through the rails. OK.

3: Clamp the rails to the table weldment 10 10 300 W and do preliminary alignment. So I am to clamp the rails to the x beams and align them with everything. OK.

4: Drill 6.8mm holes through the tables long beams for 10 10 300 D OK.

5: Mark rail locations. OK.

6: Enlarge holes in rails to 12mm. I misread this and thought I had to enlarge the holes for the x beams too. My mistake.

Now, 10 10 300 D:

1: use clamps to clamp the pilot drilled rails to the table. Didnt I do this already?

2: Mark the rail locations on the table. I did this already?

3: Use a gauge rod. OK.

4: align the rails to spec. OK.

5: Yadda yadda for squareness,... OK.

6: Drill pilot holes through table. I thought I did this already?

7: remove rails. OK.

8: drill to 7mm and tap to using m8. OK. FINE.

Am I missing something here? DUP instructions? I am seriously trying to follow his exact instructions. I have a good idea of whats going on and I am able to determine what I would do but its not about what I would do but more or less what its telling me to do. I am a bit confused with these instructions. I am sorry to annoy you but I just need some help with the instructions.

I will ask about doing something differently because thats just how I am. It's very hard on me to go along with someone else's design because I like to design everything myself. Unfortunately I do not have 10000+ dollars to toy around with. I have 10000+ to get a router built but not to play around designing my own. Nor do I have the time.

I am learnign a lot here. And to learn means to ask questions even if they are dumb questions. It is the very reason why a lot of people stop answering my questions. Because there is such a thing a dumb questions. People just get tired of answering them. It's cool.

I just welded for the first time the other day. I was asking a ton of dumb questions over at another forum about it. I get answers like read the manual and such. As if I didnt. People just get annoyed fast. Thats all.

Anyways,... I am not really in my right anyways. I haven't picked up a real tool ina long time and done anything creative in a while. Other than the other day when I welded some. Thats it. I have to get back into my groove again before I can really THINK. I have a lot going on right now. Sorry.

[cvriv.charles]

And sometimes I just like to talk.

[Gerald D]

Yes, there are some duplicate instructions, in the "notes" on the drawings.

The 6.8mm is the tapping drill size for 8mm. When steel is much thicker than the height of a typical M8 nut, you can insrease the drill size without fear of the screw stripping. Last week we tested some holes at 7.5mm and they held up - we ended up drilling 7.2mm and easily running the 8mm tap through with a cordless drill.

[Gerald D]

The logic behind the duplicate instructions goes like this:

Drawing 10 10 246 D has to tell you everything you need to know for making the holes in part 10 10 246 D, and

Drawing 10 10 300 D has to tell you everything you need to know for making the holes in part 10 10 300,

because it is possible that you could be using two different sub-contractors for parts 10 10 246 and 10 10 300. The bloke making 246 needs to know that he must not make 13mm holes before lending his job to the other guy. The guy doing 300 is going to look for the spacing between the holes - he needs to know that he has to borrow the pilot drilled rails.

The alternative way, is to give hole spacings on both drawings with tolerances of 0.1mm and then watch the price go up 3-fold . . . .

[cvriv.charles]

Ok. Well,... I was looking at all this more like steps where step 5 and 6 six are the same or atleast I think they are the same. It's hard when you are only X percent sure of what is going on. Same reason whay I asked about the 25.00043 numbers before. Wasn't sure if that was right not. have to question everything when you just dont know.