Moved to New Shop to Do Real Work! #81 - Damietta, Egypt

[234ahmed]

Hi all,
Finally after months of reading this great forum almost on a daily basis as the addiction can’t be resisted :) I decided to start my build. I’m a mechanical Engineer form Egypt. I have some experience in construction field, maintenance of the wind turbines and some computer knowledge. As usual the electronics part seemed vague/dark to me but after spending along time reading and reading and reading I have the feeling of things and I think it can work for me with the help of this great group of people here. I’m almost confident that whatever the troubles I could face during my build it will be solved with the help of MM family. My table so far will be X=1200 and Y= 1600 I ordered some of my parts (electronics) as following:
4X G203V
4X motors KL34H295-43-8B
1X KL-5413 700 W 54VDC/13A
1X PMDX-122
Please review and let me know what you think about the compatibility of the power supply with the motors.
Laser-cut parts will be received next Monday but without bending and I have to look for another workshop to make the bends.
That’s it for now and I will keep posting my progress as I go on.
Thanks Gerald for the great forum and the plans. You made it easy for me to decide what type of CNC router I will build. Thanks all for your help.
Ahmed

[domino11]

Welcome Ahmed,
Its really amazing to see all the different areas of the world that are starting to build a MM. :) Hope your build goes well.

[Richards]

The KL34H295-43-8B motors draw 6.1A when wired parallel or 4.3A if wired unipolar (half-coil). It would not be good to use a 13A power supply if you wired the motors parallel; however, the 13A power supply would be fine if you wired the motors unipolar (half-coil).

The maximum voltage for a motor with 3.3mH inductance is about 58V, so the 53VDC power supply is very near the maximum voltage if you wire the motors either bipolar parallel or unipolar (half-coil).

My personal preference would be to wire the motors unipolar (half-coil) via a 3:1 or 3.6:1 belt-drive gearbox. By doing that, you would multiply your torque by the gear ratio and you would have 3 or 3.6 times better resolution per step.

[forks_dad]

Welcome Ahmed! There's lots to learn and even more experts out there to help you. Best of luck and keep us posted!
Scott

[234ahmed]

Mike,
unipolar (half-coil) via a 3:1 or 3.6:1 belt-drive gearbox is the plan. as with unipolar i will have another chance if I've done something wrong:p as per Gerald's recommendation beside the power supply will be smaller. I really wanted to get the OM but the price+shipping(~US$2000) was huge enough to make me go for the direct drive as a start. Thanks Mike and keep an eye on me.I'll need your help all the way :)

Thanks Heath&Scott for the warm welcome.

[234ahmed]

yesterday i received my laser cut parts great move for me:).

Today i received my 4 motors , G203 , C10 instead of PMDX-122 :mad: and unfortunately a wrong power supply 65V and 15A #$@#$&:mad::mad::mad:.
Now my motors will be worm/hot if connected unipolar so i have to change the plan to Bipolar connection.Right?

Do you think this will work with the type of motors i have (KL34H295-43-8B)?
Back to reading again i think. The answer is somewhere around.

[Gerald D]

You got a 65V power supply instead of the 53V maximum calculated for the motors. That is not so serious - just reduce the current to the motors by changing the resistor on the G203 drives.

[forks_dad]

Gerald,

I have a 63V power supply - what do you mean by changing the resistor on the 203Vs?

[domino11]

Scott,
By changing the current set resistor for a lower max current, you will lower the temp rise at the motor. The higher voltage will cause more motor heating effects.

[Gerald D]

If your voltage is causing the motors to get too hot, then the simplest solution is to reduce the current by changing the resistor on the drive.

(This approach is never really mentioned on the various CNC forums, probably because it is too simple. Everybody else is focussed on changing the most difficult thing (the power supply) when a motor overheats. I really can't see any harm in dropping the current by 10% when the voltage is 10% too high)

[234ahmed]

Gerald,
When i calculate the resistor to be connected to my G203 using the Gecko formula i get the value of 75Kohm as the specifications of my motor if connected unipolar is 4.3 A . As i understand from the G203V manual the volt is not an issue here as long as its more than 17VDC and less than 80VDC. Is my calculation right?

[Gerald D]

Ahmed, your question is confusing. Are you talking about:

- a volt rating for the 75 kiloOhm resistor? (resistors are not normally sold with a volt rating, but they are sold with a Watt rating. Gecko wants 0.25 Watt. See http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0098/0900766b80098b49.pdf)


- a supply voltage to the Gecko? (There Gecko talks about a max voltage of 80V, but you have already purchased a 54V dc supply. This must be matched to your motors)

[Gerald D]

Ahmed replied by PM, here is a part of that message:

"I have 4 motors KL34H295043-8B as per the data sheet if connected unipolar:
The Amp. required is 4.3A and the inductance is 3.3 mH

Req Volt = 32 X √3.3=58 V
Req. Amp= 4 motors X 4.3 X 0.67= 11.5 A
Req. VA= 58 X 11.5 = 667 watt

I ordered a power supply with 54V and 13A

Now what i have is a power supply that provides 65 V and 15 A

My understanding is this power supply can do the job but will make my motors hot.

so if I continue as planned i calculate the required resistor to the gecko using this formula:
R (in kilo-ohms) = 47 * I / (7 – I)
So R=47*4.3/(7-4.3)=75 kilo-ohms to be connected between Term.11 &12.

In this case i have extra voltage (65- 58) and you said "I really can't see any harm in dropping the current by 10% when the voltage is 10% too high)"

How can i drop the current by 10% . Increase the gecko resistor value ???"

Sorry for putting your PM here Ahmed, but I do not do technical correspondence by PM's. We can all laugh, maybe learn, or be confused, together! :)

Your voltage is too high by 65/54=1.2 times. To drop the current 1.2 times, the new reduced current is 4.3/1.2=3.6 Amp. The resistor for that is 47*3.6/(7-3.6)=49 kilo-ohms

[Gerald D]

Also, have a good look at the transformer in your power supply. It is usually quite easy to remove some turns/coils to reduce the output voltage.

Do not worry too much about this high voltage - first run your motors and check if they really get too hot. Depending on the way in which you use your router, you might not have any problems even at a the higher current and voltage. The heating up is a slow process and you can check every 5-10 minutes over 30 minutes - you have a lot of time to decide to switch off! :)

[234ahmed]

Gerald,
Thanks for the detailed clarifications. I don't mind that you added my PM here in the way you did so its clear to any one to understand.my intention was to do the same after i have a clear vision so i don't make any confusion to any one. Any way you have the right to do it the way you think is the best for the group. we all know that Gerald knows better :)

[Gerald D]

Oh, Gerald makes some mistakes too! :)

Technically your motors are getting too hot when they feel like the top edge of a pot boiling water on a stove, or like a freshly poured cup of coffee in a thin mug. About 85 degrees C on the outside of the motor is a comfortable temperature for the motor - if you feel a true 85 C with your hand you will feel pain after about 1-2 seconds.

If I was in your position, I would buy some 47k, 56k, and 68k resistors and then experiment to see the differences on the heat.

[234ahmed]

Hi all,
Today I managed to make my kitchen table project completed. All geckos green PMDX-122 led lights green and surprise surprise!!!!!!!!
all motors turn from the 1st time smoothly. This can prove to every one that all what you are looking for is mentioned here (OK 99.999999% to be fair) it took me 3 days of very careful reading for each item to make sure there is no mistakes happens and it worked out for me .I'm quite sure it will work for every one following the rich discussions of this forum.
It gives me a very good feeling to reach this point. I hope the rest of the road will be the same :)

thanks Gerald and the others. I'm proud to be a member in your group.
A small video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrp6ZEk30LI)for my motors turning(sorry for the poor quality i used my mobile - as usual your camera batteries are empty when you really need it:mad:)

[sailfl]

Ahmed,

Congratulations on finishing the Kitchen table project.

[Gerald D]

Excellent achievement Ahmed!

[jhiggins7]

Ahmed,

Great work!:) And, you started only a few weeks ago.

I remember the feeling of getting the steppers turning under the control of Mach3. A lot of things have to come together to make this happen.

Congratulations and keep up the great work. You'll be cutting before you know it.

I enjoyed the video...nothing like actual video to demonstrate your progress.

[javeria]

Masha-allah!

congrats

[234ahmed]

Thanks guys for your support, I really appreciate it.

I thought i should submit some pictures as i have never did.Specially that I've charged my camera batteries and the backup one also :D

[234ahmed]

Hello every one
After one & a half year I’m resuming my build again. My day job was keeping me away from continuing my MM But now i have the sometime to continue. Actually I’m feeling a little bit late as i started when there was #33 MM now i can see the Number reached #74 (what a great progress). I hope i can reserve the serial #90 :p

Started with the v-rollers, I had them done in a local workshop with the bushes and installed SKF bearing as per Gerald's instructions.

I bought L 60X60X9 for the Y rails ( I know the angle should be 6mm but i think 9mm will work, more effort on cutting/grinding will be required, right?:confused:) and started cutting using the Skate. the result of the 1st rail was 1.5mm difference on the height along the rails i had 28 mm at the two ends and 26.5mm at the middle:eek::mad::mad:.
Then i rearranged my supporting surface to an MDF piece i had for cutting the second rail and the result was 28.5mm all the way:D. I think i need to have some grinding on the 1st rail to make it even along its length and shimming the rails could help too. Today i start grinding the rails.
Merry charismas to all of you MM members.
Ahmed

[234ahmed]

Grinding of the Y rails almost done. The skate was excellent for the job, easy to install and adjust. Needed some small modifications but all in all it's the right way to have a good V rails.

The only problem i had was the dust covering everything around my working area :) but this was expected. Thanks JR for the 2nd important invention in history after the wheel.......... <<<<the grinding skate>>>>.
Ahmed

[melissa]

The rails look good.

I'm a bit confused by your skate, though. It looks like there are some bolts missing: the angle fine-tune bolts, and the height adjustment bolts.

Hmmm... :confused:

[234ahmed]

Michel.
After seeing your skate now I’m confused. I checked the angle and the height again it's all fine.

I can't explain it but it worked ok for me without these bolts. Most probably because the thickness of the angle was 9mm i had to squeeze the skate to ride the angle and it was so rigid on its position.

I need to check again as i still have the X rails to be done and i plan to use 6mm angles this time so i'll need these adjusting bolts.

[234ahmed]

Today i finished welding my Y-car.
I spent over a week training to have a nice welds as I've never used a welding machine before (i used to supervise only) now i know it was not that easy.

The welds are ok even if i have some small porosity on it but that can be covered in a later stage :rolleyes::o.

The Y-car is square and leveled I had some trouble to make the verticality but i used two threaded bars to do it and that helped a lot.
I can’t remember if i saw it somewhere in the forum or it’s the sense you gain from using that amount of bolts and nuts while you are building.

Next step i need to make the gantry assembled. Let’s find something to cut the metal with. Most probably I'll buy a new cutting grinder (hacksaws are not common here in Egypt unless you are looking for a monster).

[adel_sebaey1]

Hi Ahmed
well done and hope u all success i'm starting to build a plasma cutter in SUEZ if u can help or contact.
v. thanks
adel sebaey

[234ahmed]

I managed to finish the gantry this week. waiting for my rack & pinions to arraive from hong kong. Next step will be the control box assembly. Table will be the last task as i need to move to a bigger place.

Adel thanks for your words. If you need any help contact me and I'll be glad to help in anything you need. you can PM me any time :)
It's nice to have more than one builder in Egypt

[myousry]

hi ahmed i am mohamed yousry from alexandria we already have a cnc machine we are now making a big renovation to it and the same time collecting the electronic parts of the mechmate . i am going to wait a little bit before making the mechmate as the guys in the forum are going to make a new design or something called mechmate 2 , whatever it will be called. i am not going to use the skates for grinding the rails when building my mechmate i will go for the linear slide as it's easy to install them and take so much weights. i know they are expensive, there is a mechmate member who made his machine using a linear slide. keep on building , good luck with your build,
we al salam alykom

[isladelobos]

Myousry
New design? Mechmate2? first notice about this.
You can fit the thread link?

[adel_sebaey1]

Hi ahmed u do all work ur self ?
or in a shop.
and u buy the motion sys. from hong kong??

[234ahmed]

Mechmate2 ???
1st time to hear about it mohamed. Anyway I've been lurking for over 3 years now and i can't wait for a new design :). We have a solid proven design already why should we wait for something still goanna take it's time to grownup and become a beast ? We already have one

Adel:
I make all work by myself. That’s the fun part of the mechmate you can do it all yourself as long as you have what you need.
What do you mean by the motion system? I'm buying only the racks and pinions from Hong Kong.

[adel_sebaey1]

hellow Ahmed, all success in shaa allah . i mean the slide bearingand rod, because there ise a ready motion sys. but more expensive http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/LM

[myousry]

i meant linear slide like these photos

[234ahmed]

Ok now i know what are you guys talking about sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm using the standard mechmate method (if we can call it so) for driving my machine (V-rollers & shaped angles) as per the plans.
Linear slides are very expensive and would take me out of my budget.
I wish you both Adel and Mohamed all the best in your build

[234ahmed]

Have been busy on the last 4 weeks trying to have some progress.

Table & gantry is ready now, all V-rollers are seated and moving like a charm (it really sounds beautiful when you hear the rollers moving).
Thanks Gerald your design is awesome; each line & curve has its worth and it’s amazing how things fit together.
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Started with the attachments i think I can finish this week with the mechanical parts (I said that 2 years ago:))

Next step the control box as I still didn’t order my cables and the box itself, Buttons and contactors. Time for some reading here again.

A photo for my metal band saw which helped me a lot. It’s really a nice tool.
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Ahmed

[myousry]

allah yenawar ya m3alem how did the steel cost you

[234ahmed]

teslam mohamed :)
the steel cost approx for the table is 1700 EGP and for the gantry 500 EGP. my table size is 1220X1220 (working area).

[KenC]

Well done! Lets make some saw dust!

[234ahmed]

Managed to get some electrical parts for my MM after a 2 days trip to the capital city -Cairo.

I was lucky finding some good shielded cables for a fair price (left from an old project).

I also got the Z-slide plate after a long day of searching.The material is K353 I was afraid that its gonna be hard to machine and drill but after reading the specifications and testing the machine ability i was satisfy (http://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/files/K353DE.pdf (http://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/files/K353DE.pdf)).

I've got the gas spring also. The rate for the gas spring is 260 N. So i need to add more weight to balance the lifting force of the spring.Instead of having a tube supporting the z-slid plate( 50X25X3) as this tube size is not available locally i'll add a block of steel 50X25 which have a weight of 7 kg. Of course drilling this thickness sounds scary but i have some good drilling bits :p

Some pictures as i know we all like pictures :)

[234ahmed]

Thanks Gerald and all the great members of this forum. Almost finished :)
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11800

Still have some fighting with my pause & resume buttons, router mount and my biggest fight with the software as i have zero knowledge in that area. More reading and learning.

cheers :)

[adel_sebaey1]

alsalam alikom AHMED its too nice work and finish.
i hope see u in work & rout, i've nearly finish collecting my plasma machine but same like u,
u r right "my biggest fight with the software as i have zero knowledge in that area. More reading and learning..

[zumergido]

very nice work.. too much progress.
how its egypt now that mubarak its no longer ruling. i want to go back to urgada to do some skuba!!

[myousry]

awsome work ahmed . are CNC machines getting spread all over damietta ?

[KenC]

Very nicely done! Good job!
Now, Make some wood dust & get you number!
You can run the machine without the "resume" & pause".

[234ahmed]

Adel: Thanks and i wish you the best in your build

Fernando: thank you, Egypt is great after Mubarak we make mechmate now :). Hurgada is waiting for you. Good choice to spend your holidays.

Mohamed: thanks and the answer to your question is no. Some huge woodworking shops have large industrial CNC machines for their own work but most of the small shops in Damietta don't have access to these machine’s yet. ppl started to hear about it i wish i can have a good business in the near future.my intention is to experiment using my machine as a start and most probably i will start building a larger one soon.

Ken: I know i can run the machine without the resume & Pause but i already installed it :) even sough it's not responding as i thought it will be,
Any way logos and router mount are done soon I’ll be sending some pictures and a small video for the machine in action.
Ahmed

[myousry]

ahmed did you buy your cable chain carrier from egypt ?

[234ahmed]

I've got the cable chain from HongKong along with my rack & pinion.

[myousry]

how did you get it from HongKong did u buy from online retailer

[234ahmed]

yes Mohamed.

Deitech has alot of parts that can be used in MM. their service is great, check their site at www.driver-motor.com
(http://www.driver-motor.com)or contact their sales directly as they have many items not listed on their site.https://mail.google.com/mail/images/cleardot.gifsales@driver-motor.com



I hope that helps.



Ahmed

[myousry]

thanks a lot ya m3alem

[adel_sebaey1]

EGYPT is great with her sons...
i hope all success for every one in his work, in shaa allah.

[234ahmed]

sorry for not posting these pictures earlier but once you have this beast running you don't find the time to do anything else:)
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And the logo to earn a number
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[Gerald D]

Well done Ahmed . . . now we have Africa covered from south to north :)

(From west to east will not be in my lifetime :()

[MetalHead]

Congrats !! Great looking machine !!! You get number 81 !!!!

[234ahmed]

Thanks Gerald it was possible because of you and the great MM forum members.
I wish i can help anyone the way you did to us & don't worry about covering Africa from east to west you already covering the whole world except this small part "so far" :D

Mike thanks for the Number!! It’s like a medal in front of the name. I really like it :)

[jhiggins7]

Ahmed,

Congratulations on completing your MechMate and earning Serial #81. Well done.:)

Here is the Updated Builder's Log (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AttqjIPMBEXKcExveGc4d3U0V25zQmMyX1U1eUVhU Xc&hl=en_US).

Please review your entry and let me know any changes you want to make by replying to this message or by PM if you prefer.

[HomeMadeCnc]

Congratulations Ahmed! Welcome to your new addiction :)

[domino11]

Congratulation! :)

[jhiggins7]

Ahmed,

Thanks for the PM providing corrections to your Builder's Log Entry.

The Updated Builder's Log (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AttqjIPMBEXKcExveGc4d3U0V25zQmMyX1U1eUVhU Xc&hl=en_US) is here.

[234ahmed]

It was long time since i posted any progress. My MM was moved to a new home (small shop) and started to make some work. Some of the things I've done lately:
Mirror Frame
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Another Mirror Frame
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Some engraving work
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3d Leaf (80 cm)
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And of course the famous
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Now I’m in need for a larger machine so i will enlarge my X dimension to 2440
Another thing is to add a spindle and a decent vacuum system. Photos will be submitted as the work go on.
Greetings
Ahmed

[Kobus_Joubert]

I like your chair...:D
Other stuff is also nice

[myousry]

nice start ahmed keep on i still have some problems in making my machine because of my partner interest in the egyptian revolution but soon we will be back to our building process in the meantime i spend my time making reliefs so as to be ready for machining ,
good luck
i attach some photos my reliefs what's your opinion?

[Alan_c]

Nice Ahmed, I like the engraving work with the flowers.

Myousry - you will have to do us a tutorial on how to do such nice reliefs.

[javeria]

Yes tutorials by the time your partner returns - please

[adel_sebaey1]

Good done Ahmed nice machine and i think u must make the big one from the first time so it takes the same time, electrics and work ; just the size of the gantry.
i hope u all success, i'm still working in the plasma.
adel sebaey
suez

[234ahmed]

Thanks guys,
Kobus: you inspired me to make that chair when i first saw it in your post, Thanks.
Amazing work Mohamed congratulations, as Irfan said we need some tutorials for these wonderful designs.
Adel: I built my machine on the roof of my house:) (4th floor), all the time i was thinking how i will get it down so i had to make it small and bolted now i have more space.

Ahmed

[myousry]

well guys i am still new to the field of making reliefs and i cannot make any tutorials. well ahmed what's your opinion with this leaf ? it's Still under completion. i hope my work satisfies everyone

[Kobus_Joubert]

The hard work of the chair was done by Alan. He deserves the credit.
Those reliefs are awsome...cannot wait to see how they will look on wood.

[myousry]

thanks a lot kobus but really it's a very exhaustive to make these reliefs my first try to make reliefs was these 2 panels. i was hesitant to show them as i made them from 2 photos in a website. it was a try to test my ability to imitate these models from just photos.also these 2 cornice and the one under completion are also from photos. a relief may take from me more than a month in order to finish it according to it details . anyway thanks again guys i hope you enjoy my work
Mohamed yousry

[HomeMadeCnc]

Nice work, if you post the files I'll cut them, keep up the good work,

Cheers
Tim

[Kobus_Joubert]

Nothing to be ashamed off...wish I could do it

[myousry]

thanks Tim . thanks Kobus

[danilom]

Yeah, these are really first class reliefs !

[myousry]

Thanks Danilo

[adel_sebaey1]

Ok ahmed its really nice and more hard work
i hope u make all ur dreams

[javeria]

The leaf in post 69, just post a tutorial for that and then everything folks here will pickup - awsome!

[KenC]

Awesome!
You are being modest, you are actually a league ahead! Anything you say WILL BE a tutorial.

[javeria]

myousry

can you capture a few screen shots on how you have done that leaf in post 69 - would want to see your approach in how you do it.

[myousry]

hi irfan ..
do you know how many shots will be put for this leaf???
i can make a reset to the relief and take many shots for the process of making this leaf, but this is a out of the mechmate builds subject and mike may not approve this and he is right about that. Also the shots will be so small to show in this forum regarding the allowed pixel resolutions ...

[javeria]

Well then you could probably email it out to me - irfanulla at gmail

- well its not out of the mechmate build subject at all - what say Mike -

[danilom]

I can host the pictures, no matter the size if that is the problem :)

[myousry]

sorry guys, everyone should get benefit, no pics to anyone private emails. Mike i hope getting your approval for this pics on your forum. may be you make a section for relief lessons or tutorials .