High End Router or Spindle, which way to go?

[kanankeban]

Im trying to understand where is the border line between getting a entry level colombo spindle and a high end router...I can understand that price is a very big difference :eek:. But? performance? Lets try to understand that almost all mechmate builders are looking for a budget and trying to get a good job done, with this in mind, what are the pros and cons of each way to go?

[Gerald D]

We spent about 4 or 5 years only with routers, then got a spindle for one table. Recently purchased more spindles for more tables, but they are not installed yet.

When changing from router to spindle we noticed:
- very slight increase in cut quality
- reduction in noise level
- reduction in speed set for a particular bit

We did not notice:
- more customers
- less complaints
- more business
- more profit

[sailfl]

Hector

If price is not a problem you can start with a spindle taking in Geralds recommendation.

I have a Milwaukee Router and it works very well and is quieter that the Porter Cable.

Good luck

[kanankeban]

Nils,
Im thinking on using the Milwaukee...Im will be starting business offering cutting services and doing some in house designs. Money is not a problem but I maybe prefer doing a wise decision. I Ride right now a Suzuki Hayabusa 1300R K8 (fastest bike ever)...I can kill my self with a 50cc bike the same way that with the Busa...but! the busa is grownup stuff, do you know what I mean, same thing with the spindle-router comparison, maybe it is wise to do the kids(router) thing first and then go for the spindle, but if its really such a wonderfull thing to have a spindle maybe its better to go for it, that is the dilema:confused:

[Gerald D]

Can you imagine the result if you started a thread like this:

Im trying to understand where is the border line between getting a entry level 500cc bike and a high end 1000cc bike...I can understand that price is a very big difference :eek:. But? performance? Lets try to understand that almost all riders are looking for a budget and trying to get a good ride, with this in mind, what are the pros and cons of each way to go?

What you will like about the spindle:
- can get collets for all cutter sizes
- low noise when the cutter is not touching the wood yet
- precise speed control with digital display
- ability to use lower speeds (still with torque) and make cutters last longer
- not having to change bearings every 2 months and brushes every 6 months.
- low air blast into the sawdust on the table
- easy mounting to the z-slide
- higher collet/rotor mass dampens vibrations and makes slighter better cuts

What you will not like about the spindle:
- price of spindle, VFD, reactor, electrical noise filters
- price of replacing bearings every 4 years
- special g-code programming to save the bearings
- remembering to warm up the bearings
- using 2 spanners/wrenches to change a cutter
- finding suppliers the right collets
- electrical interference from the VFD
- wondering all the time what you will do when the bearings need replacement. . . . . .

[sailfl]

Gerald,

Money is not a problem! So all those things are considerations but they don't matter. Money can fix it.

[miketeejay]

I have been pondering the same, changing from my tried and trusted Metabo GE700 (http://www.metabo.com/metabo/com/en/produkte/diegrinders/710wattelectronicstraightgrinderge700_6_06303_00.h tml) and going to a spindle, or sticking where I am. I can get GE700 for around £150. The one I am running can run 8 hours a day, and runs about 6 months between overhauls. Seems to me 3 GE700s, one in maintenance, one working, one on standby makes economic sense. One question for anyone else who has used/is using a GE700 ;), what would be your mmps move speed through 8mm MDF?

[Richards]

I replaced my PC-7518 router with a 3hp Colombo spindle about a year after I bought my Shopbot. The main reason that I upgraded was to get better cut quality (less chatter). The spindle did not noticeably reduce the chatter.

Having less noise is a plus - but not worth $3500 when a $25 pair of ear muffs work very well to reduce the noise.

Having infinite speed adjustment between 6,000 RPM and 18,000 RPM is a plus - but replacing the PC with a Milwaukee would have given me that control for $400 instead of $3,500.

Having 3hp is a big plus (the PC is over-rated by at least 1-1/2hp), but without having a huge blower/vacuum, the parts move if I push the spindle above 1-1/2hp.

So, other than having bragging rights that I have a spindle, the net result is that a router would do the job just as well for a lot less money. (If anyone wants to buy my $3,500 spindle with its $1,000 of add-on filters, just drop me a note. I would gladly let you have bragging rights for $4,500.)

[sailfl]

Another approach is using a router and upgrading the collet and nut. Precision Bits . com are making collets and nuts for PC and Bosch that have a higher tolerance which reduce the noise and runout. They are also going to produce collets and nuts for the Milwaukee. I am going to give that a try before I lay out the money for a spindle.

[domino11]

Nils,
Tried that site but could not find anything on collets at all. Do you have a link for the collets?

[sailfl]

Heath,

Not a problem.

http://www.precisebits.com/gateways/ColletsNutsHome.htm

You can buy a kit that includes three collets, nut, spanner wrench and special lub for less than 90 USD for PC.

I sent them an email request availability for Milwaukee.

I see it helps if I give the right website..... sorry.

http://www.precisebits.com

[domino11]

Nils,
No problem, at least the site you gave was a router site. :) Too many sites to keep track of. :) Happens to me all the time.
Those collets look really nice. Gerald, I wonder if you have any input on these or perhaps practical experience to share?

[sailfl]

I contacted Precise Bits today about the time the Milwaukee Collets and Nuts would be available. They have the drawings completed but the manufacturing of the items will have to waite until this summer. The manufacturer needs a large initial milling charge to start cutting. We can understand that.

[miketeejay]

Well, fate takes a hand. Bottom bearing in the GE700 seized today. Repair cost............£4.50, about $6.50. Up an running again in 2 hours. So maybe I will think it out again!! I was offered a Chinese bearing for $1, but declined!!

[Gerald D]

Imagine the implications if a bearing on a spindle packed up today - it won't be £4.50 and it won't be 2 hours. We had wonderful service out of the GE700 when the jobs were mostly manageable with 8mm cutters. Today most of the work involves 38mm ball nose cutters with 1/2" shanks on one day and 10mm straight cutters the next. It was the 38mm ball nose that drove us to using spindles - the big Makita router had a tough time with that.