MechMate Project in Johore, Malaysia.

[Nikonauts]

Hi,

I've registered meself into this forum quite a long time ago, and now ready to get serious. Someone decided to donate around US$2000 for me to build one.

This thread will be a journal of my build, as i collect information and decide on the parts and where to buy, squeezing the options to fit the budget.

I don't worry much about the frame, as iron and steel is relatively quite cheap here. metal stuffs will be definitely no more than US$1000. A friend estimates that it would costs somewhere around US$300-US$500 (~MYR1100).

I'm quite alien to engineering components like bearings, gas spring, stepper motor, drivers etc. Don't know how much it'll cost, already searched for local suppliers, just haven't got time to ask for their prices yet.

I hope you guys can help and guide me in choosing the parts.

I feel happy to be able to join this big and happy family :)

[Gerald D]

Welcome Nikonauts!

There is a small chance I will be visiting Malaysia next year . . . . :)

[Nikonauts]

Welcome Nikonauts!

There is a small chance I will be visiting Malaysia next year . . . . :)

aww... nice. PM me if it's confirmed especially if you'll be near the peninsular south (nearby singapore).

[domino11]

Selamat Datang Nikonauts!
Its great to see all the different people from around the world here. :)

[Nikonauts]

Terima Kasih Heath.

I'm still having problem deciding on the electronics to use.

initially these are the setups i have in mind :

Driver : G203V (http://geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14460)
From : GeckoDrive
Price : $147 x 4 units = $588
Output : 7A 80VDC 10-Microstep

Motor : KL34H295-43-8B (http://www.kelinginc.net/KL34H295-43-8B.pdf)
From : KelingInc
Size : Nema34
Price : $105 x 4 = $420
Spec : 906Oz 6.1A 2.1V

PSU : KL-5413 (http://www.kelinginc.net/KL_5413.pdf)
From : KelingInc
Spec : 54VDC/13A
Price : $139

BOB : C10 Bidirectional Breakout Board
From : KelingInc
Price : $25.49

Total : $588 + $420 + $139 +$25.49 = $1172.49

Shipping charges are not included.

Oops. That's more than i can afford. Never thought just by needing a bigger motor i'd need bigger everything. Previously, i was only planning to make small machine with smaller motors, like 380Oz-In.

Can anyone comment on setup below :

Motor : FL86STH118-4208 (http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/pdf/FL86STH118-4208A-H.pdf)
Provider : Motion Control
Voltage: 3.78V
Current (phase): 4.2A
Resistance (Phase): 0.9Ohm
Inductance (Phase): 6mH
Holding Torque: 8.53Nm (1200 Oz-In)
Length: 118mm
Frame: NEMA34
Price : $83.10 x 4 = $332.38
savings = $420 - $332.38 = $87.62

Driver : MSD542 microstepping driver (http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/redirect.php?action=url&goto=www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk%2Fpdf%2FMSD54 2+datasheet.pdf&osCsid=34c77c5aab71a764f4cea221dc1cc864)
Provider : Motion Control
Output : Supply voltage up to +50VDC, current output
up to 4.2A peak
Features : Optically isolated input signals, pulse
frequency up to 400 KHz
Price : $70.50 x 4 = $282.00
Savings = $588 - $282.00 = $306.00

PSU : PS705
Provider : Motion Control
Output Voltage : 75V DC at 0A & 68V DC at 5A
Output Power : 340W (Continuous)
Cost : $62.80
Savings : $139 - $63 = $56.00

Total Cost = $62.8 + $282 + $332.38 = $677.18
Total savings = $56 + $306 + $87.62 = $449.62

Is 1200 OzIn too big? The next smaller motor they have is a 400 OzIn, too small.

I wish Gecko is going to have another Sale around this time. If they're selling 203v for $100, i'm gonna grab them for sure.

please advise....

[Richards]

1,200 oz*in motors are too large for Gecko stepper drivers. The 400 oz*in motor would be better, especially if attached to a 3.6:1 belt-drive transmission. 3.6 X 400 oz*in = 1,440 oz*in. In the motor section, Gerald posted a caution from Mariss about using large motors. (Sorry, but I just realized that I don't know how to link to a specific post.) Perhaps the MSD542 is better suited for driving large motors, but from my understanding, large motors have much greater problems with harmonics (excessive vibration at lower speeds). The Gecko stepper drivers have a motor tuning adjustment, but, even with the adjustment, they are not perfectly compatible with large motors.

Also, that 5A power supply is underrated for 4 motors. Each motor can pull 4.2A, so a 12A to 16A power supply would be better suited (depending on how hard you plan on driving your machine). Buying a large (amperage) power supply is cheap, compared to not being able to do the work that you built the machine to do.

[Gerald D]

Nikonauts, I don't understand why you want to buy motors from England or America when their motors are made in Asia and you are in Asia?

[javeria]

Nikonauts , you can email claudia_xia@hotmail.com for steppers and drives and spindles, I am planning to get a Asian spindle myself from them. They ship out of HongKong and you may get everything you need from them - they even list timing pulleys on their website - however I dont know the quality of the stuff they supply.

Their website is http://www.driver-motor.com/

My best to you in your build!

RGDS
Irfan

[Nikonauts]

Got quotations from motionking, $50 for 34HS9801. $200 for 4 units, $154 for S&H. $354 total.

wonder if their $80 driver worth buying.

My brother agreed to make BoB & PSU for me...

It's all down to driver now....

anyone have any good luck with cheap driver out there?

I'll buy gecko once the machine made itself enough money.....

[Nikonauts]

Is Gecko G250/G251 good enough?

It's cheaper than MotionKing drivers, plus it has mid-band resonance compensating feature.

Good? no good?

[Nikonauts]

Guys,
a motionking motor 34HS9801 has the below characteristics :

Unipolar
Rated Current (A) : 4.0
Phase Resistance (ohm) : 0.98
Phase Inductance (mH) : 4.1

I've read too much in too little time, confused already.
how much is the inductance when the motor is wired half-coil?
What's the rated current then?

Will it then match "perfectly" Gecko G540 inductance requirement (2.5mH-3.0mH)?

Will it do fine when supplied with 50V?

With G540 i don't have to trouble my brother to make a BoB anymore....

[Richards]

The MotionKing web page states that the listed specifications are for unipolar (half-coil). That means that inductance for bipolar series would be 4 X 4.1 mH or 16.4 mH. The rated current for bipolar series would be (1/SQRT(2)) X 4, or, 2.8A.

[Gerald D]

Nikonauts, the G540 with its G250 drives is not going to manage slow turning direct drive motors to their full capacity.

[Nikonauts]

Ok ordered stepper motor and driver.

Driver will arrive tomorrow.
Stepper will start shipping on the 5th due to long holiday in China.

Have sent drawings of V-Roller, ecc. bushings etc. to machine shop. Got quote and will see them tomorrow to change material spec. to squeeze a bit more on the price.

Sent quotation request to local metal shop, expecting to get from them tomorrow.

Tomorrow will send drawings to laser shop.

It will be a very busy day tomorrow.

[Gerald D]

I see from http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=544166 that you will not be building a MechMate at this stage?

[Nikonauts]

Nikonauts, the G540 with its G250 drives is not going to manage slow turning direct drive motors to their full capacity.

i worry about that too... but weighing between cost and performance i'd go with the g540 first. If it fails me, i'll try to go the pulley reduction way (i will, eventually, anyway, for finer cuts. For now it's about making it happen). If that also fails me then the G540 will go to my JGRO build and i'll rob a bank so that 4 G203V will find it's way to my MechMate.

Marcus confirmed that 34HS9801 4.1mH inductance is good for the G540. We'll see how it works.

I find that many people don't push their motor to the limit. They always go below the rated amperage/voltage of their motor. From 65V to 50V, 4.0A to 3.5A i think is comfortable. Well, that's more like what i "guesstimate" as i am inexperienced. While it might be within the "lazy range" of the motor, it is for sure squeezing the max out of the driver, but hey, that's why gecko is best known for.

I'll give it a try. If it fails, it's my bad. If it works, it's good news for people within limited budget. DIY CNC is about bringing technology and ability to fabricate to individuals with less financial resource. It's about democratization of technology. It's a shame that a solid mechanical like MechMate is out of reach of these people because it must run on expensive electronics.

I read on Make magazine on MIT projects of bringing cheap CNC and 3D Scanning & Printing to enterprising people of the 3rd world. I think the same principle should be close to the heart of MechMate, "coppulating" beauty of technology/invention with people's power.

Mechmate, while still out of affordability of average individuals (to splash 4 months of income into a hobby) it's a great help for small businesses or aspiring entrepreneurs to bootstrap to a higher level. US$15k-$20k imported full size machine is a lot especially if they are struggling to compete with well established contemporaries.

We'll see how this one goes. I definitely gonna need advice from a pro like you Gerald, but if it doesn't work then the blame is all on me and i hope you won't stop giving advise because i go against this one. :o

To muslims : Happy New Hijriah Year, to chinese/vietnamese : Happy Lunar New Year, to everyone else : Happy Gregorian New Year. We're celebrating 3 new year within 1 month here, back to back.

[Nikonauts]

I see from http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=544166 that you will not be building a MechMate at this stage?

Well i was confused, been thinking to much so that everything fits inside the budget bracket.

When i find that hardened chrome shaft is cheaper here than in the net, i was thinking that i might make my own design using end supported 20mm shaft. Plus, with the emphasize towards the use of G203V and Geared OM Motor puts me away from MechMate.

Later it occured to me that 20mm shaft will deflect badly when spanned 1600mm (according to online calculator result, and also to postings in CNCzone).

And only then i realise that MechMate is the cheaper way to build a 4x4 or bigger machine. When it discard the use of ballscrew and fancy linear motion method it's economic and scalable. Today i realise another thing, when you have to buy steel in stock form, it costs the same to build 4x4 as to if you build a 4x8, only floor space constrain tells you either it's gonna be 4x4 or 4x8. (well, you have to add just a little bit more, it's virtually negligible compared to the gained benefit).

At first i was bent on building mechmate, later when i worry about the electronics cost, i was thinking about building an own design. when my own design go against me, i'm now 70% leaned towards mechmate.

i could, of course use diy linear motion (read: skate bearing) on my own design, but if possible i need a presentable design. my goal is to build machine for my people. i want them to embrace cnc so they could be competitive, for that it has to be presentable and affordable.

tomorrow i'll collect quotations from laser/plasma shop, metalshop, machineshop and at night i'll be back to kitchen table. Hopefully not gonna go back to drawing board.

haven't surveyed the price of pulley and belt, i'm also weighing using belt to drive the machine, not just as a mean of reduction gearing.

[Nikonauts]

It's 2016!

After 7 years, I'm reviving the project.

Took all the parts already purchased in 2008 out of my closet, still look brand new.

Some bearings have a bit of rust, going to ditch that.
My EI core transformer can't be found. Never mind, hate it's loud vibration anyway.

Old components :

Stepper - MotionKing 34HS9801 x 4 units.
Driver - Gecko G540 x 1 unit.
E-stop, limit switches.
Capacitor - 15000uF 100VDc
Bridge Rectifier - KBPC3510

Ordered new :

Rack - Mod 1.5 15x15mm 1000mm, C45 steel, hardened, 10pcs
Pinion - Mod 1.5 24T C45
Z-Slide - DF2 (O1 equivalent) Tool Steel plate 6mm x 100mm x 570mm
Stub Shaft & Bearing Base - S45C 25mm solid round bar, 250mm
Gas Spring - Camloc variable 200N-2500N, 400mm stroke, 880mm extended (SWV4101000020)
Transformer - Nuvotem Talema torroidal transformer 500VA, 1x230V 2x35V (0500P1-2-035K)
Skil 1.25hp Router


To be ordered after CNY holiday :

Laser cut parts
100x50x6mm Hollow Tube
20x6mm Flat Bar
65x50x7mm Angle Bar
Bearings (RM3-2RS, 6001-2RS, 6304-2RS)
Capacitors (30000uF 75V, 2 units)
Wago Topjob-S DIN connectors
Contactor
Mini Circuit Breaker
Maybe some panel DC Ammeter/Voltmeter.

[Kornerking]

Kool.
Even I didn't take that long.

[asselin22]

good luck,with the project, i hope you share pictures with us,it would be interresting

[Nikonauts]

good luck,with the project, i hope you share pictures with us,it would be interresting

Surely, yes... I will.

[Nikonauts]

Received gas struts and transformer from RS.

It's bigger than I imagined.

I know they're 880mm long (400mm stroke), and it'll protrude vertically quite tall, but didn't imagined it would be that tall and the cylinder that thick.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OxsXE7ovyUKSGecZ6GESxvUPpwyLM7S2an4d5qYqJKrLBU-CYzGN0sdeamrGMDvHjrgYBAgJyN_XyhuibZ5q1PUnldoUVvipm 3CKxzNaqSXVyyGDK2F6F0A90STaPSjrSK3R2bxiUbVhsXX8usX 9tXpf978MHeBb-1PzFb6KtuADS9nQp5LHe-E_rNt6OEKHxTAOwgIA1byaq6MVN05MASfFV3CNpGuIoEgVU9Q_ TF5dPJGy8zexhWVp_-cP7WzxLMWqlW1HkzST9XSzBiZ7qp7Vdynyh9H-u0agkNKJlHV3T3eCSYxgeqzGni58D3xnsFFiWFlYecNX-qjpLSgC--lUQbFtPAUkeJMENzoxD51r1rrfHrGGS_iDX0Vj6RJ3RxRXQ42S vuR75LMmENJ6EQ4q9IdNUHkHZm8xyRQuMlnDcQkzaUwxpPUtqT M4D6PpNLe7HkA80jPhfgk6NQ8dmIUaOa5wls__EF8Tg5NI9TPW JRmscTHp66-oVjv85vVyluVq-vLqv1OojCRLuTB5OdidFaQ6gEELm6ucWa_OPlEu7f0mx7ZtS_a 47dFSmFvNBluB=w801-h1068-no

It'sold in pairs. Wondering should I sell one, or just keep it as spare.

The transformer is on the table, black cylinder with orange label.

I thought the casing can be opened, but seems like it's permanently sealed.

[Tom Ayres]

If they work keep it as a spare.

[Nikonauts]

If they work keep it as a spare.

How long yours last?

I read somewhere Gerald said he expect them to last a year, but his last i think 2 or 3 years.

[Tom Ayres]

So far 2 years and I have a spare as well which I compress once-in-a-while. I store it shaft down cylinder up.

[smreish]

I got about 3 years on my original with about 20 hrs of use a week

[Nikonauts]

Thanks Sean and Tom. I will keep the extra.

Need one more help... need to figure out specs for reduction belts/pulleys.

I think I'm going with the GT2/GT3 profile as it's designed for high torque application and very low backlash compares to it's predecessor HTD, and other belt profile.

However I can't figure out how to determine the minimum pitch size and belt width.

I've searched the forum to see how others built their reduction belt, but mostly it's about the plate design, shaft and bearings.

Any help on how to approach this?

[Tom Ayres]

I use an XL belt .20 pitch (1/5 inch), to me it seemed to have the most available pulley options at the time. I'm set-up with 3.6:1 reduction, I've never broke a belt (available in kevlar) and I've never jumped teeth. I can't remember what the other most common metric belt is (been a while)

[Nikonauts]

0.2" (5mm) pitch size sounds just right, Tom.

May I know the width?
And do you notice any backlash?

[smreish]

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366

Entire collection on belt and transmissions

[Tom Ayres]

I went with 3/8", honestly I haven't noticed any backlash, not saying there isn't but not noticeable.

[Nikonauts]

Tom,

Owh, wow... That's only about 9.5mm.

I'm getting skeptical towards the manufacturers literatures.

----------------

Reish,

Thank you. I did read that thread before (and other threads that mentions about belt/pulley on this forum). I will re-read it again.

[Nikonauts]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2kS059OGHEJdULGgpLmf1UlJtTloDekXMJqv-aAxAtKI3tlLOVuOXU2iVbIAq76GNpd7G0YibTNIgqpXtZxd26b E0QqNDarP01yE8UrxjH1UoSCT6JC97D8XGoZDGOFa9uYigHpFO qPkhoNOfNxxgSc94LMv4uW66Mor-oUiN9mFF7ny1qIJE5dC232Asr6yZIheCT7CqV-8nfQ43GUQ7IXNgNdp5gtwuJvGmLiyP4tkADAufI_6yH-s54tcmfCBStGxw0rGL4XWFz04It-ka5DRrIDW1Z7d12CFYAMOkniR3l15P51L-AodtrWSGFqMF6rFCReJWLLOXAAWP6DD4mJNWCAHEWD6qErfqac IDluU1axwzidDZ3Q53ZkVlxNBBIT9YLCq7R4t2JSlPEQT0D5Af R5iP13FN3OdVNb9aIhzhP1irlSeM1hcinHpsrOQyEt2cwXs-Q878f7PkcGqFWZAikeVwuUOsDZopFY_OJKtzTNyNOpg9UD_KTC eelUNVrDMW8Y91rQjGBwbwxfAsTOIjdKhytfoHuU7AmVM5OMGm EOV-UKOCeYR994cwpXFKnxX=w1309-h736-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hkZsg4sg9HkFGBf0_nICY3Th7HQhnk6-c87nOonvnMQ9vUye-WieJx4si2u1N7CuHvjxFZ88jDNq9IsDVXHFuO_60Ewz7yn_HV1 HIXoOBxlBw4XsfnoHXhEPcaWJ3ut0iWVqk8VkBoys-eWx-P67QHqsW0EfcaQSQ9r7fyjzH6UiYpM12dRmOtPDKaaXqGvOQ7Q h13KLVdq7qVzPVkOjvJpHvJcPiWEqSLf-Yc8QCBkb8kQ_Tl_LLuzYmcvkvoFeiQwxYrDFZC2RXiOOdXqV8G khbLJVAomK_KovIjLAuQKn27a3hcmzvBa1X12ybubxcZToaybU lNW12Vqqnu_lpnUUojBqKDwoQnxOIWd34bsR1glfymGwZwHnY3 c95W7QBNJpCze1qvLMgxJkrp7TUN8Ez535FVOYw285JMyGo4s8 nHKRCvI7gQM0lttvs0GbJ7HFZx5pTCDttxNo4xv-dDF4scENixCmPxfZX2WaYOk-sCgoKlUZ_G6ke2BVhvZmeAJA83saEnfkOdlEsL56iQDdhRyYH4 9jDcmdVVrvYkwGnKuYPy_rQeqE3hpeDg46hqmx=w1309-h736-no

Received raw material for Slide Plate, Hold Down Stub Shaft and Bearing Support Base.

The plate is 6mm x 102mm x 570mm DF2 (equiv. to AISI O1).
Cost is MYR60 (US$15)

The solid roundbar is 25mm x 250mm S45C.
Cost is MYR5 (US$1.25)

The thing is, the plate is rusty.... and the thickness is exactly as required in the drawing.

What's the many micron should I ask the machinist to remove?

[Tom Ayres]

Just enough to clean up, I'd say a couple of thousandths of an inch. If the plate is being used for the z slide only the edges are critical for the bearings (which will be beveled leaving only a 1mm flat edge) otherwise I'd say sand it with a sander enough to knock of the bulk of rust and move on, paint it if you must.

[Nikonauts]

Guys,

While waiting for more parts to arrive, I tried to design my reduction pulley system.

It seems like the combination of my 34HS9801 motor with 25mm HTD pulley will cause about 17mm of the pulley bore surface not having contact with the shaft surface.

Assuming that the set screw hole center is exactly half the length of the pulley hub, that's as far as I can push it into the shaft, 1mm deeper then the set screw would miss the flat part of the shaft.

Could this cause a problem?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LuSKOkwt4pcGkW4SH4UV7JhDUEEajFr-wYY1xzAk_doeuYCh-TQRbPq6oSwYbhBAWuLZ_KF8s4YY=w801-h492-no

[MetalHead]

Look up rust removal fluids like Evaporust

https://www.evaporust.com/evapo-rust-rust-remover

http://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Rust-from-Metal

Soak for a while and use a scotch bright pad/steel wool to clean the surface, rinse with water and cover with primer (oil if not painting)

[Nikonauts]

Look up rust removal fluids like Evaporust

https://www.evaporust.com/evapo-rust-rust-remover

http://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Rust-from-Metal

Soak for a while and use a scotch bright pad/steel wool to clean the surface, rinse with water and cover with primer (oil if not painting)

Didn't know such solution exist... Thank you sir.

[Fox]

I made an insert foe the pulley on a lathe with same motors, but i think you are fine. Use a little loctite 603 on the shaft pulley when in doubt when you nwed to remove you can heat thw shaft a little to remove pulley. Shaft is ok with a little heat.