Birthday serial number #26 - Round Rock, Texas

[jhiggins7]

As I mentioned in another thread, I've been lurking for more than a year.

Well now I am ready to start to build the MechMate. I plan to start with the kitchen table project for the basic check-out of the control hardware and software.

For the kitchen table project, I have:

3 OM Vexta motors (explained below)
1 PMDX-122 BOB
4 Gecko G203V (standard) drives
2 test power adapters (12VDC, 24VDC (as a test Power Supply as suggested by Marcus))
Mach3
PC running Windows XP


Regarding the OM Vexta stepper motors, I got the chance (Ebay) to purchase 3 OM Vexta stepper motors for $125 total, including shipping.:D
I know, I know, Gerald's warning about USED motors that you don't know the history of. But this was too good of a deal not to give it a try.

These motors are removed from a parted-out ShopBot.
One of them is a PK296A1A-SG3.6 which we all know pretty well based on this Forum. Two of them are A6497-9412KTG's. Most of you know this is the "custom" motor built for ShopBot that is described as "similar" to the PK296A1A-SG3.6. I will possibly get two more similar steppers from the same source at a similar price. Could happen. May not. If I don't get them, I'll purchase a new PK296A2A-SG7.2. I know, I know Gerald's warnings about mixing motors. But this was too a good of a deal to pass up.

So, now to some questions. I have the OM datasheet for the PK296A1A-SG3.6 plus the experience of this Forum, so I know how to wire it. However, the A6497-9412KTG only has 4 wires, not 6. The wire colors (colours) are Black, Green, Red and Blue. From the PK296A1A-SG3.6 wiring diagram, I could assume that the Black/Green is the A coil and the Red/Blue is the B coil. Is this correct?

Gerald, have you worked with the A6497-9412KTG? If yes, do you have a "specification"? I could not find one on the OM site, with a Google search or on the CNCZone forum. Also, are there any concerns you would have using this motor for the MechMate? I plan to build a 50" X 100" table with a standard Z slide.

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

See Mike's post here (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7249&postcount=2).

We have used a lone A6497-9412KTG on the z-slide of the original MM without problems for a couple of years. (It was bought used from ShopBot at $175. The state of the used motors in that batch made me vow never to buy used again). See the pics in this thread (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171).

I opened that motor the other day. See this thread (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=943).

To make a long story short, you need to drive your G203V's at just below their voltage limit of 80V.

[jhiggins7]

Thanks, Gerald

Can you confirm that Black/Green wires are the A Coil and the Red/Blue wires are the B Coil for the A6497-9412KTG stepper motor? I don't want to release any "magic smoke.":eek:

Is your reason for running the Gecko 203V's at near 80 Volts to maximize the torque, at some sacrifice of top speed for the 4 wire stepper motors?

I have considered a scheme that would provide 2 power supply voltages to the Gecko's. The voltages would be approximately 39 VDC and 78 VDC.
Thus the 4 wire motors would be run at 78 VDC and the 6 wire motors would be run half-coil at 39 VDC. I know there is a risk of messing things up when using multiple voltages, but do you think the difference in performance of the 6 wire steppers run at half-coil would be significant.

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

OM have standard wire colours across all their motors. I didn't release any smoke.

If you calculate out the voltages you need, that match the inductances of those motors, the answer is always higher than 80V, irrespective of the coil choices. We ran at 75V and the motor didn't get hot.

A half-coil PK296A1A has an inductance of 7.7mH, which relates to a voltage of 88V. (Hope you are not confusing it with a PK296A2A). Greg J runs his PK296A1A motors on 70V.

[jhiggins7]

Gerald,


You are right:
...
A half-coil PK296A1A has an inductance of 7.7mH, which relates to a voltage of 88V. (Hope you are not confusing it with a PK296A2A). Greg J runs his PK296A1A motors on 70V.

I was confusing the two types. A2A versus A1A. :confused:

I was thinking ahead to the PK296A2A-SG7.2, if I end up having one (or more...in case one of my used ones fails) in my configuration.

I will proceed with an Antek toroid transformer with 2 x 28 VAC secondaries. Wired in series they will give me about 78 VDC. If I later move to PK296A2A-SG7.2's, I can re-configure the secondaries to parallel and 39 VDC output.

Regards,
John

[Richards]

The problem with the PK296A1a-SGxx motor wired FULL COIL is voltage. When wired full coil, the inductance is about 30.8mH which equates to 177VDC maximum voltage. The Gecko power supplies can only handle voltages up to 80V, so most of the potential of that motor is wasted.

The Gecko G203v is designed to work best with motors having induction in the 0.5 to 20mH range, so, with the G203v, that motor will run rougher than it would with a G202.

Because some of your motors only have four conductors, you will have to wire the motors bipolar series (full-coil). The Black/Green conductors are the A-coil and the Red/Blue conductors are the B-coil.

Wiring the motor full-coil at 78V will significantly reduce your top speed, but they will work very well to get you started. After you've made a few thousand parts, you should have enough generated income to buy some PK296A2A-SG7.2 motors and a suitable power supply to optimize your MechMate.

[jhiggins7]

Thanks Mike,

I was hoping you would wade in. I appreciate your input.

So, next I plan to see if I can get the motors to turn using Mach3, the PMDX-122, and the Gecko's. Of course there will be no load on them at this point.

Is there a way to put a load on them before I get them on the MechMate...which is still some time off?

I noticed that some folks have wrapped a paper towel or rag around the shaft and applied pressure with their fingers (I think it was you when you were checking current draw under various conditions). I know this isn't a scientific load test, but would the hand-applied load be enough to discover some problems that would not show up under no-load conditions. Or is it enough just to know they turn, go fast, go slow, reverse, etc?

Regards,
John

[Richards]

John,

A quick and dirty way to load down a stepper motor is to install a V-belt pulley onto the shaft (2 to 5 inch diameter) and then just wear a heavy leather glove as you use your fingers to squeeze the pulley. I turned down a V-belt pulley on my small metal lathe to get a smooth fly-wheel type drum that is easy to grip with a gloved hand. Because it is smooth, I can gradually increase finger pressure until the pulley stalls.

Be careful anytime you use your fingers. A geared stepper can produce a lot of torque, and you don't want to find out how much torque a bone can handle.

[jhiggins7]

Success!:D

I got a motor turning via Mach3-PMDX-Gecko-Stepper. No heat and no magic smoke...at least so far.

I was held up for an hour or two because of a sequencing problem. I had started Mach3, configured it, then powered up the PMDX and Gecko. I was getting no motion. In fact, Mach3 was not responding when I attempted to jog. Then, I shut down Mach3, brought it back up and it worked. Apparently I needed to power up the PMDX before bringing up Mach3.

I'm still a babe-in-the-woods with regard to using Mach3. So the only thing I've done is jog. I'm going to have to dig into Mach3 a bit more to get beyond slow jogging.

Regards,
John

[jhiggins7]

Okay, so I learned a little more about Mach3 and G-Code. I wrote a little G-Code routine to let me turn the motor in either direction. I can vary the feed rate and loop the routine so it runs continuously.

So far, I have run the motor very slow like 5 inches per minute and up to 500 inches per minute. The motor is from a ShopBot and has the pinion gear still on it. The pinion gear is 34mm(1.34 in) in diameter. I wrapped some duct tape around the gear and tried to stop the rotation with my gloved hand.

At 5 inches per miinute, I could NOT stall the motor. At 500 inches per minute I could stall it with medium-high pressure.

I haven't done much tuning. Also, I'm using 1 amp and only 30 volts. I'm still just checking things out. I have yet to build my power supply.

Does this sound like a properly functioning motor? Remember, my motors are used and have an unknown history. So, I'm trying to validate that the motors are working.

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

That motor sounds healthy.

Now is a good time to tune your G203 to the motor (adjusting the trimpot). Read the G203 manual to find the simple procedure.

[jhiggins7]

Thanks Gerald. I'm starting to develop some confidence in those used motors.
I'll do the Gecko tuning you suggest.

I have a question on an entirely different subject.

I'm working on the design of my Control Box. I would like to post the schematic once I'm done. I have, of course, downloaded the PDF Drawing files which include the schematics. But, it's difficult to modify the downloaded PDF. I've got a PDF to DXF converter. It converts the PDF but the text is not text, it's just bits. So, I've had to go to each line of text and replace it with AutoCad text. Very tedious. Even after I've done the clean-up, the conversion back to PDF is only somewhat satisfactory.

I've tried to locate the DXF or DWG versions of the Drawings without success. Did I just miss something?

Is it possible to download DXF or DWG versions of the drawings? I don't actually need them all. Just 10 70 115 and 10 70 130 are needed. I would prefer DWG versions so that I have a better chance of a "clean" version when I convert it back to PDF format for posting.

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

The tuning of the geckos may change with power supply voltage and current resistor (I don't know if it will), but it is far better to set it while the motors are off the machine.

Sorry, but I am not planning to release drawings in other than pdf. I have far too many layers that need to be hidden before releasing.

[jhiggins7]

Gerald,

Thanks for the additional tip on tuning the motors.

As for the DWG/DXF version of the drawings, I can clearly understand the issue.

I do have an additional question regarding the conversion of the AutoCad drawing to PDF. I used the DWG to PDF selection on the AutoCad Plot menu.
Is that what you use, or have you found a better, or more useful tool?

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

Plot to Adobe PDF - it makes smaller files than the freeware PDF makers.

[jhiggins7]

Progress: all used OM Vexta Motors have been tested and work fine. I'm moving on to construct the Control Box. I've received most of the components and I painted the enclosure today (MechMate blue, of course).:D

I have a question regarding mounting the Control Box.

My MechMate will float out in the floor, not next to a wall. Power is buried under the concrete and available right next to the MechMate site. Dust collector ducts too.

My question is whether to mount the Control Box on a post like, for instance, JR did, or to mount the Control Box under the MechMate table like, at least, Hugo and David (Taiwan) did.

I know Gerald has expressed concerns about the Control Box being mounted under the table due to concerns of dust and dirt and accidental bumping into it.

What has been the experience of those who have mounted the Control Box under the table?

Are there additional issues that you can identify?

This is an important decision for me now, because my enclosure has an end plate. If I mount the enclosure on a post, I want the end plate on the top. If I mount the enclosure under the table, I want the end plate on the bottom.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,
John

[gmessler]

Hey John,

Another thing to consider when choosing the control box on the wall or on the machine is cable length/cost.

The main reason I mounted mine to the table is an extreme lack of wall space in my garage/shop. The cable length vs cost took second place but the lower cost certainly didn't hurt

Hope this helps.

Greg

[Richards]

If you mount the control box under the machine, be sure that it faces out. My Shopbot has the controller facing in. Lying on my back on a cold concrete floor every time I decide to change something is hard on these old bones.

[Gerald D]

Suggest you consider end-plate always at bottom. If on a post, you can make a thicker end-plate and weld that to the post.

Don't look at the control box mounting in isolation . . . . You also need to figure where your PC, keyboard and mouse are going to go. They could all go on a "post", but they cannot all go under the table....

[jhiggins7]

Thanks to you all for your input. Gives me plenty to think about.

Greg,

See Gerald's point regarding location of the PC...

...You also need to figure where your PC, keyboard and mouse are going to go...

Greg, what did you do with your PC, Display, Keyboard & Mouse?

Gerald,

Regarding the end-plate...
Suggest you consider end-plate always at bottom...

Why "always at the bottom?" I'm not planning on routing cables through the end-plate on the top. If mounting on a post, the end-plate presents an uneven surface. It is off-set to the back, so if I terminate the post on the end plate, there would be an out-of-balance situation.

Just trying to understand the logic.

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

In factories and on ships I have always noticed the end-plate on the bottom. Suppose that is the point where leaks develop? Okay, water leaks shouldn't be an issue, but for me it will just feel odd to see a plate on top.

The post doesn't have to go to the center of the plate, and the top plate of the post can be bigger than the original end-plate.

[jhiggins7]

Gerald,

Thanks for clearing that up.

Regards,
John

[gmessler]

Currently my computer sits on a desk next to my laser. At some point in time I plan on building computer cabinet similar to David's.

[jhiggins7]

The Control Box is complete. All steppers (3 for now) work from Mach3 via the computer printer port through the control box, PMDX-122 and the Gecko's.
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The above photo includes the the steppers and the 3 24 VDC Contactors to be used for turning on the Router, Dust Collector and Vacuum Hold-down. I decided to go with Contactors rather than SSR's after reading about the heat generated by the SSR's. The Contactors will be mounted on the table (in the case of the Router) and next to the motors of the Dust Collector and Vacuum Hold-down. Just need to run a 2 core, 24 VDC cable to each Contactor.

Below, the three panel indicators on the right of the front panel are for the Router, Dust Collector and Vacuum Hold-Down. The keyed switches below the indicators are for "test." Keys to be removed in normal operation.
3306 During testing, the 3 Contactors have been turned-on by Mach3 via the M3, M7 and M8 commands.

The Control Box includes 78 VDC power supply to the Gecko's, a 12/24 VDC power supply for the PMDX, E-Stop Circuit and to power the 3 Contactors as well as a Relay Board to control the Router, Dust Collector and Vacuum Hold-Down.
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Below, in the upper right hand corner, there's room for a 2nd PMDX-122 for a future expansion to 4 axes.
3308 The 3 yellow boxes in the middle of the picture are the relays on the Relay Board built to switch on the Router, Dust Collector and Vacuum Hold-down. They are controlled by signals from MACH3 via the printer port and PMDX-122.

Below, the Gecko's are mounted as per forum recommendations. The space to the left is for a possible future 4th axis.
3309 In the bottom left corner is an AC outlet, accessible from the bottom side to plug in the computer, monitor, etc.

Hope I haven't bored you with this. I'm so happy to have reached this point. Now on to the "table."

Regards,
John

[lunaj76]

Very nice and tidy! Look forward to the rest of the build.

[Gerald D]

That is excellent John!

[jhiggins7]

Thanks Justin and Gerald.

Welded up the Y-Car last evening. Kinda sloppy welding job. Clean-up needed. But seems level and sound. Followed Gerald's welding sequence and happen to have a piece of granite on-hand to make sure it was level and at right angles. Of course the test will be when it's riding on the Gantry and the Z-Slide is attached...down the road a bit.

Bill Tolbert and I are going to Houston for steel on Friday. They have good prices and have some "seconds" on-hand especially for the Main Beams.

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

John, I've just noticed your collection of hammers partly shown in the one photo! :eek: They will come in useful for aligning the rails. :D

[servant74]

I have found a good selection of hammers helps my 'attitude' when debugging electronics. ... That may be why some of my electronics projects don't fair to well :)

[jhiggins7]

In post #27, I said that Bill Tolbert and I were going to Houston to get steel on Friday...at the time I meant Friday, 16-JAN-2009. Well, make that Saturday 24-Jan-2009.:D

Here's the trailer loaded with TWO MM's at the Steel Yard

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John on the left., he's smiling because we've already unloaded his steel. ...................................Bill on the right, don't know why he's smiling, still have to unload at his house

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I don't know if these two are going to qualify...NO FACIAL HAIR!:( But, hey, full heads of hair up top. Does that count for anything?:D

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

In your country I don't know if the stuff on top is hair or snow!

Happy building :)

[domino11]

Gerald,
In Texas, I dont think they get much snow. Up here in Canada though, this time of year it will definately be snow. :)

[jhiggins7]

Yeah, snow is pretty rare in this part of Texas. I moved from the north to Texas more than 30 years ago and I've seen it snow maybe 4 times. And even then, it's what Heath would call a "light dusting", gone by noon the next day.:)

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

John & Bill, it is clear that you didn't need to hit the brakes hard on your journey home with that trail - the bumper on the back of the truck looks un-damaged. :D

But seriously, for other guys who are still going to carry "sticks" of steel around and are not used to doing it, that stuff slips when you hit the brakes and it has plenty of momentum due to its weight. Strap the load down tight and drive cautiously. (A headboard on the trailer would be the best)

[jhiggins7]

Gerald,

We knew you wouldn't miss that.:D The pictures I selected for Post #30 are before we strapped the steel down at the yard and after we removed the straps at my house.

To re-enforce your point, here's a picture of the steel strapped down. We had the same concern that you expressed that one or more of those sticks could break loose and crash into the back of the suburban during braking. With our strapping and traveling about 170 miles, there was no movement.

3445

You give good advice. I know of a trucker hauling pipe who had one piece of pipe break loose, come through the cab and through his body like a spear. The inertia of that kind of concentrated mass can be astounding and dangerous.

Regards,
John

[servant74]

They have more hair up top than I have facial hair (full beard). ... I vote to let them get by with it ;)

[jhiggins7]

Thanks, Jack. You should pull a lot of weight around here among the bearded ones with that full beard.

But, I think I'd have to let my hair grow a bit to match your beard. Haven't had my hair that long since the seventies...you know, the Beatles hair style fad.

Regards,
John

[jhiggins7]

Yesterday I cut the steel into manageable pieces so I could carry them to my backyard where the workshop is. Good thing I got them off the driveway and inside. It's raining today.

3476
Here, I've got the first piece of angle ready to cut-down.

Here's the Mikita Metal Cutting Saw with the jig I made to guide the cut. A little about the saw. It's the Makita 4131 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002VB1WS). When the discussion about Metal Cutting Saws was raging on the forum and the discussion turned to the Mikita saw, I happened to see it on Amazon for $140 with free shipping. I bought it. I'm afraid it's about twice that now.

3472
3477

I made a wider base. The one it came with was only about 4" wide. I made two guides to attach to the base. The one on the right in the picture is fixed and held with small clamps at 28 mm from the blade. The one on the left has springs between the guide nearest the blade and the fixed piece furthest from the blade. The springs help hold the fixed guide on the right tight against the steel. Good thing I used the springs and not just two fixed guides. The steel width varied nearly 1/8th inch.

The cutting went very well. It only takes about 5 minutes to cut the larger pieces. I cut them at 28.5 mm to allow for clean-up. After cutting them down, I used the belt sander to smooth them. It only took a lite sanding to get them smooth. I only took off less than .25 mm and they were smooth.

3474

I'm sorry these pictures are a little fuzzy. I was trying to show the forum how the Metal Cutting Saw cut. I'm afraid I didn't do too well.

I started the bevel grinding. Here's a picture of the JR grinding skate. You can see that I've added a handle mount. I used the handle that came with the grinder. This grinder doesn't have a top hole for the handle. So, I drilled and tapped a small piece of 3/8's steel to fit the handle. I welded that to another piece that I shaped and drilled to fit on the standard skate. I considered welding it at 45 degrees to the mounting plate, but after trying to see how it would feel, I decided on 90 degrees. It does a good job.

3475

You'll note that I'm using a Skill grinder. My DeWalt was going to require a lot of modification to the standard skate. I found this Skill grinder at Lowes for $29.95. It is almost a perfect fit for the skate. It's 6 amps. I figure if it fails, I can take it back. It's guaranteed for 1 year.:D

Just a note on equipment casualties...I have an older (maybe 10 years) Skill belt sander. It died during the sanding. I really wasn't pushing it. I think it's time had just come. I hope that's my "right of passage" and I don't have to burn up a grinder. Had to finish up with the Porter Cable sander.

Administrative note: I guess there's a limit of 5 photo's per post. I was trying to show 6 (rail after cutting and before sanding) and strange things started happening. That's okay, the photo was kinda fuzzy. If someone is really interested, I'll try to get a better set of photos to show the effectiveness of the saw.

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

. . the Makita Metal Cutting Saw with the jig I made to guide the cut. . . . . I made a wider base. The one it came with was only about 4" wide. I made two guides to attach to the base. The one on the right in the picture is fixed and held with small clamps at 28 mm from the blade. The one on the left has springs between the guide nearest the blade and the fixed piece furthest from the blade. The springs help hold the fixed guide on the right tight against the steel. Good thing I used the springs and not just two fixed guides. The steel width varied nearly 1/8th inch..

You learnt a lot from us guinea pigs! I made the mistake of handing the saw and the rails (for 5 big tables) to one of my staff and told him to get on with it. At the end of the day he was wandering off the line. A spring loaded guide would have prevented that.

[jhiggins7]

To paraphrase Newton, (and this IS a loose paraphrasing), we who follow "stand on the shoulders of giants.":D

When I read about your experience, I started thinking about how to control the path of the saw. The jig is the result.

Regards,
John

[J.R. Hatcher]

John the jig is your "right of passage" ......welcome to the group. It needs a name (JR grinding skate)

[jhiggins7]

Thanks JR. You are one of those "giants" the rest of us stand on the shoulders of. I appreciate the welcome.:)

I like your idea of the saw jig being my right of passage.:D I rather not have to burn up a grinder...but we'll see.

On the other hand, given the price of the saw, I seriously doubt that the saw jig will ever be popular.

Regards,
John

[vishnu]

Hi,
Your controller looks good. Good going, from now on you are entering the best part of the show, enjoy every minute. No BBB leave it , its nice to have trim clean faces, but please be a part of us with atleast one Big 'B' :) . The cutting machine with the Jig looks to do a better job. How long did it take to complete cutting your 1 'X' rail because with our ordinary hand grider with cutting wheel took at least 30 to 45 minutes for 10 feet.

Vishnu

Vishnu

[jhiggins7]

Vishnu,

Thanks for the remarks.

No Beard, no Bike...what's the third B, Beer? I'll have a beer!:D Honestly, I couldn't find the reference to BBB in the Forum. I have a distant memory of the discussion, but since one can't search the forum on a 3 letter word, I looked around a little bit and gave up. Let me know, what the 3rd B is.

As for cutting down the rails to 28 mm, it took about 5 minutes to cut the longer piece which in my case is 152". It took less than an hour to cut down 40 feet of rail, including using the belt sander to smooth the saw marks. So far, I'm very pleased with the saw. I also used the saw to cut the 2" X 4" rectangular tube for the Gantry. Worked like a charm. I wanted to make sure the end of the tube was square, so I clamped a guide to the tube and held the saw against the guide. The result was square and had no burr.

Regards,
John

[domino11]

Boep :) I think (beer belly)

[jhiggins7]

Update...finished grinding the rails. Whew, that's a job!:eek: Glad it's done! It took roughly 8 hours of grinding. I ground 40' of rail.

First of all, the $29.95 grinder got the job done and is still RUNNING. I had a scare about half way through. I adjusted the bolts to cut deeper and I set the cut too deep. So I was grinding too aggressively. The grinder started to smoke!:( But, it must NOT have "released the Magic Smoke," because it kept working. I let it cool down, reset the depth and worked with the grinder the rest of the day.

Lesson's learned:

1. Don't be too aggressive on the grinding, it smokes grinders.

2. I found that I got the most controlled grinding by letting the grinding wheel PULL the skate along the rail. My job was to prevent the skate from going too fast and thus skipping a part of the grind and holding the grinder down on the rail. When I pushed the skate against the direction of the grinding wheel, I got more aggressive cutting, but it was NOT uniform...and it was HARD WORK! Just be patient and let the grinding wheel do the hard work.:D

3. Also, as someone else already mentioned, by letting the grinder move quickly across the rail, everything stays cooler. Don't rock it back and forth. The grinder stays cooler because it's not working as hard. The rail stays cooler because you're not sitting in one place grinding away. Also, I suspect, but don't know, that since you are moving quickly down the rail, the grinder is constantly encountering and throwing off "cooler" chips and just like in other kinds of cutting, bigger, cooler chips are a good thing.

Question: I noticed after finishing the grinding that a light hand sanding of the ground surfaces removed the grinder marks making the rails look more like they had been "machined." I haven't seen any mention of this idea...at least I don't remember it. Is there a problem with lightly hand sanding the rails? I don't think it would change the dimensions at all.

Regards,
John

[jhiggins7]

Thanks, Heath. I think I've got that "B" covered.:D

Regards,
John

[domino11]

John,
Yes, me too I fear. :o

[Gerald D]

Question: I noticed after finishing the grinding that a light hand sanding of the ground surfaces removed the grinder marks making the rails look more like they had been "machined." I haven't seen any mention of this idea...at least I don't remember it. Is there a problem with lightly hand sanding the rails? I don't think it would change the dimensions at all.

The light hand sanding is perfect. We sometimes even drag a file across a rail that is roughly milled (draw filing). Strictly, this does change a dimension somewhere, but by such a tiny amount that you won't notice it. Bolting the rails down makes much bigger changes in the dimensions than a bit of sanding. The smoother the rail, the cleaner it stays.

On the BBB nonsense; I don't do bikes or beer. I thought it started as "big blue beast"?

[Kobus_Joubert]

I think my BBB was the first... Big Blue Brakpan.....bike and boep came along after that.

Enjoy;)

[jhiggins7]

Thanks, Gerald. I'll finish the rails with a bit of hand sanding.

As for BBB, I must admit that my "beer belly" comes from too much plain ole food, not beer.:D

Kobus, I think I'll leave the BBB to the "experts":rolleyes: and get back to the MechMate.

Regards,
John

[jhiggins7]

And I missed all the fun.;) Come on guys...share!:)

But, I did get the Y-clamp strips cut and drilled and the Gantry welded. Also got the Cross Bearers cut to length.

Now for a bit about my personal status. I'm going to have a "trial separation" from my MechMate. About 10 days.:(

No seriously, my wife and I will be in College Station, Texas, about 100 miles from here, for about 10 days. We're helping our son and daughter-in-law with some re-modeling of their house.

So, since I can't take the MechMate along, I be taking a break from the build:(:(:(

However, I will be checking in with the Forum.:D


Regards,
John

[servant74]

Put a webcam on your 'baby' before you leave, so you can check in. When I was there 3C BBQ had good brisket, and occasionally GREAT BBQ beef ribs.

Enjoy a mess for me!

3C may be gone by now, it was 35 years ago!

[jhiggins7]

Jack,

Not much to "webcam" yet. A piece here and piece there, but I'll keep that in mind.

As for Barbecue, Rudy's rules now-a-days. Actually the LOML, Dee, does a great job with a brisket...we're taking one along for the occasion.:D

Regards,
John

[HomeMadeCnc]

Hello John,
Great idea for the rails, I'll cut mine that way. One less thing to think about. Enjoy the "Vacation".

Tim

[sailfl]

John,

I have some questions about your dust collection system that you talked about on Pablo Peu's build site.

That looks like a Harbor Freight dust collector with a Wynn Enviornmental 9L300BL or 9L300NANO filter and a home built drop out box sitting in front of the dust collector.

Which filter are you using? Is that correct about the drop out box (not sure that is the right name for it - ment to collect large pieces). If that is not a drop out box are you having a problem with larger pieces getting caught in the filter.

How long have you been using the dust collector and how does it work.

I am thinking about buying the same system. I like that the filters have a long life and can be cleaned and reused.

Thanks

[jhiggins7]

Nils,

Very perceptive.:D You are very close.:) It's a Grizzly DC, but their DC is very close to the Harbor Freight DC. I did note that the sheet metal used by the Grizzly model is a little thicker than that used in the Harbor Freight model.

Here's a link where I describe the modifications (http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=71.0)that I made to the DC based on Phil Thien's "cyclone" baffle. It works great. I recommend it as a "cheap" alternative to a true "Cyclone."

What you see in front of the DC in my picture is a 5" tee. My DC ducts are buried under my workshop slab. The downward pointing part of the tee is connecting to the under-slab DC ducts. The upward pointing part of the tee is actually plugged off and is for a future duct to my 24" thickness sander.

Nils, if you are not planning to build a Bill Pentz cyclone and you are planning to add a Wynn filter to your DC, I would recommend the Wynn 35A as discussed by dbhost in the link above.

I'm happy to provide additional detail if you would like.

Regards,
John

[sailfl]

John,

When Harbor Frieght puts them on sale, I will get back with you though I think you write up is very good. If this works good enough I won't buy a cyclone.

[jhiggins7]

I'm back in town and working on the MechMate. I've made some progress on the table in the area of cross bearers, main beams and legs.

One picture I want to share with the Forum for anyone considering a metal cutting saw. I got my oxy-acetylene rig all ready to cut the remaining angles on the main beams (I don't have a metal bandsaw). I only had the steel yard make one cut. I was concerned that they would mess up a second cut on each beam, wrong length, wrong direction...something. Plus each angle cut was $12.00.

Well before cutting the beam (it's C8 X 13.75 #) with the oxy-acetylene and doing the inevitable clean-up, I though I'd see if the metal cutting saw was up to the task.

Here's the result:

3664

The beam on the left was cut by the steel yard. The one on the right by the metal cutting saw. I was amazed. The saw depth of cut is 2.5 inches. The beam depth at the web is 2.25 inches.

Regards,
John

[kanankeban]

Im amazed also...I cant wait to put my hands on one of those, I went to a dealer here in Mexico, but the price here is about 500dlls...a bit to much :mad:, Ill wait for a good deal on ebay or amazon maybe...and add this baby to my tool collection ;)

[sailfl]

John,

You might be hearing from me after the 13th of March. Harbor Frieght is putting the 2HP dust collector on sale for $179.99 instead of $249.99. Which is an excellent price. I will start working on the modifications to the collector then.

[jhiggins7]

Nils,

Great! Glad to help anyway I can.

Have you figured out how you're going to support the duct over the table? I've been thinking about it a little, but haven't done any real work on it. I kind of like Koning's hanger design. Also, having the entry at the middle of the side of the table is interesting.

Regards,
John

[sailfl]

John,

I have thought about it today. I want to think about it some more but I am thinking of running PVC pipe or hose to the center of the table at the rafter level. This will only work if you have rafters above your machine like in a garage. At the center location, I am thinking of making or finding a rotating device that the flexible hose is attached and runs to the PVC pipe coming up from the dust collector foot and above the Z.

I have some other ideas of what I can do but I need to play with the concept for a little time and buy some items and do some searching on line.

This is just a concept right now but I think if I can find or build what I want I think it will work.

If anyone uses this concept, my name appears on it. :D

Of course it could all go up in dust also.

[domino11]

Or if it works, the dust will go up. :)

[jhiggins7]

Made some progress...the table is now assembled. Feels kind of good.:)

This is my "coat of many colors" table. some bare, some primed and some painted...

3708

The Gantry moves smoothly as does the Y-Car. Still need to complete the attachement of the rails to the X-Beam and the Gantry...plus a whole lot more, of course.

3709

Regards,
John

[gmessler]

Looking good John.:)

[dcozort]

WOW !!!! some progress.. Thats alot of progress. good job. I bet it does feel good.. Seems like yesterday that steel was on the trailer.. Now look at it.. Very clean work.. It looks like you bolted your diagonal leg bracing instead of welding.. If thats correct do you intend to keep it that way or are you going to weld later.. The reason I ask is I want to construct my table in a way that it can be disassembled in sections after painting to move.. Like if we sell the house or something... Moving the entire table welded up would be a pain.. once again super good job john your modification look very good.... Dennis

[jhiggins7]

Thanks Greg and Dennis.

Dennis, the cross bracing under the X-beam is welded. So for each side, the beam, the bracing and the legs are a welded unit. The Cross Bearers and end bracing are bolted to the the side-beam-units. I don't plan to weld the the end bracing to the side-beam-units.

Just like you, I thought I might need to move the table someday. I can disassemble it and reassemble it. The heaviest individual piece would be the side-beam-units, which would weight less than 200 lbs. each.

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

Took me a while to see the table . . . . was first admiring the clean, light and super tidy workshop! :)
Good work!

[jhiggins7]

Thanks, Gerald. Still need some more clean-up, though.

Now that I've done "a little bit" of steel work, my impressions are that it's a lot like woodwork...planning, measuring, sawing, drilling, fitting-up, gluing (welding), sanding (grinding), filling, finishing and clean-up.:D Except, the "dust" from steel work is messier and harder to keep cleaned-up.:(

Regards,
John

[dcozort]

hey john,, Am I understanding you right, you have little experence with steel work but more with wood work?? If so thats where I am. I went to school for welding in 1980 for a year,, but have not welded since.. What machine did you weld with and were there any problems or regrets or things you would change.. I have many wood machines in my shop but as fate has it no welder.. I've read some post regarding welding but concensus seems to vary on machines and wire .. your welds look good.. Thanks Dennis

[jhiggins7]

Dennis,

Thank goodness for grinders and caulk.:D

I have a Millermatic 130 MIG welder. When I first got it, I did not have shielding gas. I used flux core wire. I recently got shielding gas. Using shielding gas is much better. Cleaner welds. I also have a auto-darkening helmet. That makes a difference too.

Like you, I have most of the woodworking tools. But I'm very limited on metal working tools.

Regards,
John

[Jayson]

Looking good John,

I look forward to seeing it completed. By any chance will you be installing a dust collection system that uses automatic gates?;)

Jayson.

[jhiggins7]

Thanks, Jayson.

I have already installed a Dust Collection system using automatic blast gates. The automatic blast gate system is the GreenBox from Ecogate. In the picture of my table, at the lower right corner, there's a blast gate. That one was for my router table. When I get the the MechMate finished, I plan to use that DC port and blast gate for both the MechMate and the router table.

Are you familiar with how the Ecogate works?

Regards,
John

[J.R. Hatcher]

"Are you familiar with how the Ecogate works?" :o

He may be, but 2948.6 of us are not ..........so share. :)

[Gerald D]

From http://www.ecogate.com/legacy-systems/legacy-systems.htm:

"Here you can find information on Ecogate systems and accessories witch[sic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic)] are no longer manufactured"

I supposed witches ride on brooms, which are used for collecting sawdust? :D

[jhiggins7]

Yes, as Gerald indicates, Ecogate no longer manufactures the system I purchased. My system can operate 8 gates. I purchased it with 7 gates for about $500.

Ecogate is still manufacturing systems, but the least expensive one is about $1000. The system I own is now called the "legacy" GreenBox.

JR, the Ecogate system has a control box, and motor-operated blast gates. There is a sensor attached to the motor of the tool associated with each gate. When you start the tool, the motor vibration is sensed and the control box opens the associated gate, closes the last gate opened and starts the Dust Collector...so you only have one gate open at a time. When you turn off the tool, the Control Box turns off the DC. It's very convenient when you're switching from tool to tool...no need to manually operate the blast gates and turn on and off the DC.

Regards,
John

[J.R. Hatcher]

My DC operates very similar to that. I did incorporate a delay relay to keep it running an extra 45 seconds to give time to go from one machine to another without the DC starting and stopping so much (from the jointer to the table saw to the radial arm saw), It also gives extra time to clear the lines from the surface planner. All of my gates are manual :(. It sure would be nice to make them automatic. All in time ;).

[jhiggins7]

Made some progress...I've got MOTION, in 3 dimensions.:)

I ended up with plan B. Since, I never got the other used Vexta motor, I had to purchase a new OM Vexta PK296A2A-SG7.2. So I modified the main power supply to produce 39 VDC for the new Vexta and 78 VDC for the older Vexta's. Seems to work fine.

Still need to wire the router, attach the spoil board, do some more clean-up and then I should be ready for cutting.

Regards,
John

[jhiggins7]

Took some pictures to document the MechMate.
4280
4281
4282
4283
The dark rectangle in the upper right of the Control Box is a digital thermometer. It only displays Centigrade...The probe is attached to the Gecko heat-sink.
4284
34 degrees C (about 93 degrees F) is the warmest the heat sink got after several hours of operation. I was air-cutting the Roadrunner graphic over and over.

A little more work and I'll be ready to actually try to cut something:D

Regards,
John

[Gerald D]

Great pics John!

What was your shop ambient temp when you saw the 34 degrees?

Am a bit nervous about the shortage of E-stops . . . . . . where will I find someone else to maintain the file of completion records? :)

By the time I post this, you are probably cutting already ? :D

[Gerald D]

www.wunderground.com (http://www.wunderground.com) says you had 28o C yesterday?

[jhiggins7]

Gerald,

E-Stops are planned...but after I get it cutting. I divided my FactoryMation order into two...stretching out the spending.:D

I happen to notice that the shop was about 26 C about the time I took the picture.

[Jayson]

Hi John,

Your build is looking great. I forgot to check your thread a while ago and have only just got around to rereading a few threads here. I am familiar with the Ecogate system. I had installed one for my boss a few weeks before seeing your pictures, the blast gate was imediately recognisable. Seems to be a great system.

Keep up the good work.

[inventall]

Looks Great!! Like the temp gauge and the clean neat shop!

[jhiggins7]

Thanks Pete and Jayson.

Jayson, I like the Ecogate a lot. I've only had one problem. A lightening strike took out the controller. The strike also took out about a half dozen other electronic devices and made a hole in a gas line in the attic(that's another story).

Ecogate replaced the controller for about $80...even though they no longer produce my model. Great service!:)

Well, I've got 48 bolts to install to fasten the MDF to the cross-bearers. Then install the spoil board and I'll be ready to cut. Hopefully TODAY!:D

[234ahmed]

Congratulations John. Wish you all the best with your 1st cut.

[jhiggins7]

Thanks Ahmed.

Got the bolts in, and it's cutting...here's proof.:D
4288
Haven't licensed MACH3 yet, so I get the classic "partial" Roadrunner.
4289

And it's my birthday! No one will believe that I didn't hold off until my birthday...but I didn't even think of it until this morning.:)

Regards,
John

[domino11]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY John! Congratulations on the first cut,
and I guess you will probably have a serial number and
your machine will have the same birthday as the builder. :)

[Gerald D]

Congrats on your, and your MM's, birthdays!

[Lex]

Happy Birthday, for man and machine!:)

[javeria]

:) congrats for both the MAN and the MACHINE!

[Jayson]

Congratulations and happy birthday

[jhiggins7]

Thanks everybody. Feels good!::D

Gerald, a special thanks to you for the very special Forum and your tireless efforts to help us reach this goal.:)

Also, to all those others who have contributed to the Forum, we who follow you benefit greatly from your shared experience.:)

Here's the updated Builder's Log (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pLoxg8wu4WnsBc2_U5yEaQw).

Regards,
John

[Rad Racer]

Wow, you got a MechMate for your birthday!

Well done John.

[Higginto]

:D

Woot!! Glad to hear that you machine is now operational.

Todd

[kanankeban]

Congratulations John...on machine and birthday...
Hector

[hennie]

Now your MM can grow old with you Happy birth day!

[Kobus_Joubert]

Well done John.

It is a great feeling finishing the BEAST. Are you as young as your serial number..:D

[docarter]

Great job John:) Now that's a birthday gift I'm sure you will enjoy!

[gmessler]

Congratulations John! :)

Nice shop!

[jhiggins7]

Thanks everybody, for the nice comments.

I proud to say that's my son, Todd, in Post #96. He's getting interested in the MM.

Greg, I built my shop just before I retired (the second time). It's 24' X 36', and like everyone that has built a shop, I wish it was bigger. However, I hadn't planned on a MechMate, and I'm able to fit it in without much compromise. Couldn't put it against a wall since all the walls have built-in cabinets. But, as you've seen, I floated the Control Box, so it fits okay.

I've completed the Computer-on-wheels cart. I modeled it after similar products used in the medical field.

4385


The top just clears the X-Rail, so the cart can be moved close to the working area.

4388

I used materials on hand, except for the casters ($2 ea at Harbor Freight). The top is made from an old desktop computer case. The base is made of 1"X 2" steel tube...left over from the MM. I used 2" casters. If I had it to do over, I'd use 5" casters...better to roll over any clutter on the floor.

4389

The computer is a used Small Form Factor Dell computer that I bought for the MechMate. ($80 plus shipping and taxes AND it includes a legit copy of XP Pro).

So, now I'm tuning up the MM and learning to use the software. This 10 inch circle was created using DoubleCAD (free), G-Simple CAM (free) and Mach3. I still have some slight adjustments to make.

4386
4387

Regards,
John

[Jayson]

Very nice work John.

Looking great.

[MechMateCajun]

That is one first class build . . . Hope I can come somewhere close . . .

Steve:)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Nice going John. Now we are waiting to see more and more dust. And pictures

[jhiggins7]

Thanks, Jayson (belatedly), Steve and Kobus.

We moved MechMate #26 to my son's house. He is planning to build a small business around it.

Regards,
John

[domino11]

John,
So you will now have to start another one for yourself. :)

[domino11]

John,
How did your move and re-assembly go? Pictures? :)

[jhiggins7]

Heath,

Yes, I'll build another one depending on how my son's business plans go.

MechMate #26 is a "bolt together" style. Each Main Beam with legs and cross supports is a unit. A Main Beam unit probably weighs about 200 pounds. We removed the MDF, removed the Cross Bearers (bolted) and moved it using a hand-pulled cart from the back yard to the driveway. Of course we had removed the cables, router, Y-Car and Gantry.

Reassembly went well. Had some extra hands. Took just a few minutes...up to the point of re-installing the cables. I took the opportunity to install the Safety switches and wires and a plug for the the Zero Finder. The leg levelers came in handy. My son's garage floor is built with a slant to the entry.

I'm sorry I don't have any pictures. I'm not in the same city with the MechMate at the moment.

[domino11]

John,
Glad the move went well. Let us know how the business for your son comes along. :)

[jhiggins7]

User andrewuk sent me a PM requesting photos of my low voltage E-Stop design. I'm pleased to respond. Andrew, I hope you'll forgive me that I have placed your response in my Build Thread. I am doing this, so others that may be interested can see the design.

I feel that there is some unnecessary danger in having the MAINS power (120 volts or 240 volts) running around the table to provide the E-Stop circuit voltage. However, Andrew is the first to show interest.

Here are the requested photos and drawings. This is a photo of the low voltage power supply mounted in the control box. I built it on a perf board.
The attached PDF's are the circuit diagram of the low-voltage PS and the Circuit Diagram of the MechMate control box modified to incorporate the low voltage power supply in the E-Stop circuit.

Andrew, thank you for your interest. I hope this helps.

[racedirector]

Thanks for posting this John, I am studying the electrics side and wasn't too fond of of 240V snaking its way around the table. Hadn't got around to reading your thread (have done so now!). Off to decipher your modified diagram and to grab a 9V toroid.

Cheers
Bruce

[andrewuk]

Thanks for the reply john. i personally think low voltage is the way to go as most new machines use low voltage on the E-stops. are you using a standard contactor or a safety relay?

[jhiggins7]

I use a 24v relay indicated in the Schematic as the ES Relay. The Contactor is a standard 120V Contactor which is energized by the ES Relay.

[andrewuk]

john i remember now you used a auto type relay

[jhiggins7]

Andrew,

The ES Relay is a "standard" 24 volt coil, 1 or 2 amp contact, PCB mount relay. I don't remember the exact product model and I'm not in the same city with my MechMate, so I can't be sure. I used 24 volts because, as was mentioned earlier, it's a common voltage used in machine control circuits. The ES Relay doesn't need to have contacts rated for high current, since it's only energizing a Contactor.

Here's a photo of the relay. It's mounted on a perf board.

I remember someone talking about using Automobile Relays when I was building, but it wasn't me. They are typically 12 volt coils, not 24. An auto relay would work if you choose to use 12 volts for the E-Stop circuit.