| Author |
Message |
    
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 160
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 12:46 pm: | 
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Gerald, How many wires go from the Gecko drive board to the steppers. Does all wires have to be screened including the power cables. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 693
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 03:12 pm: |
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We must be careful of the words here because we don't want any confusion....
There is a single cable from each gecko to each motor. That cable contains 4 wires (4 cores). Also, around the cores/wires is a single metal screen/shield. The screen/shield is not connected to the motor, but at the gecko end the screen/shield is connected to ground/earth ("under" the gecko). These cables can be about 11 meters long each and they need to be fairly flexible. We used 1.0mm2 Ölflex from Lapp
I am not sure what you mean by "power" cables? |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 161
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 10:47 am: |
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Thanks for your info Gerald, What price did you pay for a meter of the Lapp cable that you are using. the local guys are quoting around US $ 5.00 per meter for Pirelli brand.
One more thing Gerald, Did you find any specific part number for the Olflex cable that you are using. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 695
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 01:42 pm: |
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The full description for the stepper motor cable is "ÖLFLEX CLASSIC 115C 4 G 1.0mm sq" which cost me $1.65 per meter |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 163
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 08:29 pm: |
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Thnaks Gerald for you effort. This stuff is not avilable localy. I will will have to import this from Singapore where they have stockists for LAPP. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 697
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 09:04 pm: |
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If you are doing a special import, then you need a complete list of all the cable types running to the gantries and cars - all these cables need to flex and all should be shielded. (Your laser may also have special cable requirements)
This is what I have on the MechMate now:
4 cables, 4 core, 1.0mm2 for the 4 steppers
1 cable, 4 core, 1.5mm2 for the spindle main motor. (9 amp)
1 cable 4 core, 0.5mm2 for the spindle fan and thermistor
1 cable 7 core, 0.5mm2 for input/output signals from the breakout card (not all cores are used yet)
1 cable 4 core, 0.5mm2 for 220V power/control. (2 cores used for E-stop)
(I recall that I ordered 11 meters to the z-axis and a bit shorter to the back x-motor - my control box is high on a wall behind the walking area)
There is also a single green 6.0mm2 cable for ground/earth (not shielded). This you must have locally.
The price of copper went up internationally by about 50% last year - of course that is the excuse why cable prices have risen sometimes by 100%! |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 171
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 07:57 pm: |
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Given below are the prices which I receved from my Singapore supplier(ex-works singapore) for LAPP cables. Hopefully this info would be of some benifit to the other guys on this forum.
1. 4 Core 1.00 mm2 for steppers (Part No 1136204) SGD 2.70/mtr (US$1.75/m)
2. 4 Core 1.5 mm2 for spindle (Part No 1136304) SGD 3.60/mtr (US$2.34/m)
3. 4 core 0.5 mm2 Fan/Thermister SGD (Part No 1136004) 1.95/mtr (US$1.27/m)
4. 7 core 0.5 mm control card (Part No 1126107) SGD 3.60/mtr (US$2.34/m)
The above given prices are quoted in Singapore Dollars. (I added the US$'s - Gerald) |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 703
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 08:43 pm: |
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Here is some info on those cables:
http://www.lappusa.com/Spec_Template.asp?nGroupID=10114 |
reza forushani
Registered
Username: Reza
Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 06:28 am: |
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How many meters/feet of each cable do we need to order? |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 859
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 06:53 am: |
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Reza, this depends on the size of table that you are going to build, but mostly depends on how far you are going to locate the control panel from the table. It also depends on whether you use a router or spindle (routers need less, but thicker, wires than a spindle). There is no harm in laying extra cables in case you want to change from router to spindle.
In my particular case (9'x 6' table, spindle, control box 8' from table) the cables were an average of 36' each. (The x-motors need shorter cables than the y&z-motors). |
reza forushani
Registered
Username: Reza
Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 08:29 am: |
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so is that 36 meters of the 3 types of wire or 36 meter of wire for each axis? |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 863
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 08:46 am: |
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Oops, lots of confusion - I see now from your profile that you are in Atlanta but work in the metric system. I gave you feet ('), not meters. Look at this post above....
The length of cable from the gantry/cars/motors to the control box is about 11m [36' (feet)]. Therefore, each motor needs a cable about that long. Plus you need cables for other devices as well. |
reza forushani
Registered
Username: Reza
Post Number: 26
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 04:39 pm: |
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Working late last night got me thinking meters. I was confused. Yes I work with feet, was just tired and not thinking straight. I am going to start with a router and see what happens. So should I use 2.0mm2 for that since you mentioned thicker for router? How much of the 7 core? and the last one for power/e-stop does that run to the table? What location? |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 870
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 05:17 pm: |
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When you use a router out on a construction site with a long cable, what gauge wire would you be using? I presume you are talking 110V and quite a lot of amps? The gauge (mm2) of the router cable for the MechMate will be the same as that. (Our cables would be thinner here because we are 220V)
36' of the 7-core
also 36' of the power/e-stop cable - it goes to the red E-Stop button/s on the moving gantry.
Modified for a router application:
4 cables, 4 core, 1.0mm2 for the 4 steppers
1 cable, 43 core, 1.5(?)mm2 for the spindle mainrouter motor. (9 amp?)
1 cable 4 core, 0.5mm2 for the spindle fan and thermistor
1 cable 7 core, 0.5mm2 for input/output signals from the breakout card (not all cores are used yet)
1 cable 4 core, 0.5mm2 for 220V power/control. (2 cores used for E-stop) (only 2 cores are needed, but you might not be able to get it) |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 871
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 07:05 pm: |
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Apparently 14gauge or 2.0mm2 is right for a 15 Amp single phase router in 110V countries.
In 220V countries you can use 1.0mm2 for the big routers because they will draw around 8 Amps at the higher voltage. |
reza forushani
Registered
Username: Reza
Post Number: 31
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 01:41 am: |
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I got these prices today. Aren't they high?
Omni Cable A1211804 $1.67/ft
Omni Cable A1211404 $2.54/ft
Omni Cable A1211807 $2.57/ft
These are supposedly equivalent to lapp cables. Plus freight from NC. What is everybody else doing for cables? Any internet source with better prices? This comes out to about $500.00 for just cables. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 129
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 04:23 pm: |
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How to "strain relieve" the fine "drain" wire of "Mylar screen":
 
Mylar screen used inside the control box only, where the cables don't flex. |
Hugo Carradini
Registered
Username: Hugotel
Post Number: 55
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 09:11 pm: |
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Gerald. ¿Would it be OK to you use Alpha Wire Mouser part number 602-2424C-500 and 603-2433C-500 for motors and router?
Thanks |
christipher saint denis
Registered
Username: Dzlqw4
Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 07:23 pm: |
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Reza
If you don't mind me asking, what brand of cable did you end up purchasing and what supplier? I contacted a Michigan distributor of the Lapp Olflex and they are charging for $3.50 to $4.75 per foot. I have not contact Lapp directly I have just called a few local distributors.
Anyone found a reasonably priced US supplier? I will keep up my search.
Thanks |
David Smith
Registered
Username: Coolmoon
Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:55 am: |
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would this work?
http://www.ramcorpwire.com/products.php?cat=8
they have 2, 4, 6 and more conductor shielded unshielded
12, 14, 16, 18ga gray pvc cable if so seems to be a good price |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1275
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:29 am: |
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I did a quick check of that site and could not find specs of bending radius, strand diameter or even comments about the suitability for continuous movement? Our application is not high speed robotics, but we do want some flexibilty in the cable. You might need to call Ramcorp to find out a bit more? |
David Smith
Registered
Username: Coolmoon
Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 05:51 pm: |
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So I e-mailed ramcorp and this was there reply
"Our cables are typically 7 strands for the 18 Gage and 19 strands for the 14 & 12.
These are somewhat flexible although, they are really not intended for a continuos flex.
Typically the bend radius is about 20 times the diameter."
so i will look for somthing better I realy don't want to scrimp on the cables |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1278
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 06:24 pm: |
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I have just counted the strands in some Lapp Ölflex Classic that are here at home:
1.5mm2 30 strands (16AWG)
0.5mm2 16 strands (21AWG)
Their spec, from the links above, says bend radius of 20x where there is movement and 6x for static. Maybe I went a bit overboard with my cables for this application? Cables are seldom discussed on all the CNC forums. |
David Smith
Registered
Username: Coolmoon
Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 12:47 am: |
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well I found a local company that can order me omni cable price ranges between $1.78 and $2.35 a foot for 12,14 and 16ga.
I'd rather go heavy and not worry about the amps. One of the porter cable routers at work is rated 11 amps. anyway I want to
make sure I order right. I need?
4 cables, 4 core, 14ga for the 4 steppers (again all of these are most likely way overkill)
1 cable 4 Core 12ga for router or upgrade to spindle
1 cable 7 core, 16ga for input/output signals from the breakout card (to where?)
1 cable 4 Core 14ga for E-stop
anything I'm missing?
Thanks
Dave |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1280
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 07:11 am: |
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Welcome David!
Before I look at your ga sizes,....
- are the cables screened or shielded?
- how flexible are they?
My first impression is that your cables are too thick, causing flexibility problems?....... |
David Smith
Registered
Username: Coolmoon
Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 12:20 am: |
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Hey Gerald,
They would be shielded but I could not find the specs online so I called the company and was not impressed with the help I received.
The good news is that I found another website that has almost too much selection and info. http://www.hitechcontrols.com/index.htm
I called and they seemed to be very helpful and said they would research the specifications I gave them and get back to me.
Anyway I will post the part#’s and pricing when I get them.
Dave |
David Smith
Registered
Username: Coolmoon
Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 02:28 am: |
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this is what I finely came up with
15978 144’ 4 16ga/1.5mm steppers
15926 36’ 4 14ga/2.5mm router/spindle
15934 36’ 7 20ga/0.5mm breakout card
15930 50’ 2 20ga/0.5mm e-stops
http://www.hitechcontrols.com/cables/control_cable/drag_pvc_shielded/jz_hf_cy.ht ml
had some pricing but changed the sizes a little but it’s running between $2.25 and $3.25 a foot
for CE rated UL rated is about twice the price.
Going to order soon so if anyone has comments or another source let me know
Thanks
David |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1281
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 07:12 am: |
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David, those are extremely high-spec and expensive cables. Fabrica and I got the Ölflex cables at under $0.75 a foot. Our cable has a 20x bending radius for flex, yours is twice as good. I don't see any downside on your selection, other than the price.
Here is the USA specsheet on the Ölflex - what happens if you call the number at bottom right on that sheet?
18 AWG 1.00 mm2 is fine for the stepper motors, you don't need any thicker. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1282
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 07:29 am: |
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Found useful Alpha info here:
www.alphawire.com
I have a funny feeling the Ölflex 115CY has been discontinued and no longer meets codes in some countries - that's why it finds its way to South Africa and Sri Lanka? Looking at its contruction, it only has a very thin clear layer between the shield and the inner cores, making it small overall (and maybe cheap). Our motor cables are 7.3mm outside diameter and weigh 130g/m. Dave's selection is 9.5mm outside and weighs 243g/m. |
David Smith
Registered
Username: Coolmoon
Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 02:27 am: |
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Well I bit the bullet and ordered my cable. cost was close to $600.00 (ouch). The problem I ran into is there is no "middle of the road"
either the cost is sky high or the cable is not flexable and you have to buy it in bulk. after talking to the wife I decided to get the
better cable and not have to worry about problems down the road. It may not be cheap but I want/need a high quality dependable
machine and if built right I belive MechMate will be both.
Gerald thanks again for all you do.
David |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1284
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 07:07 am: |
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Here is a reply I got on another forum:
"I use Alpha wire from Mouser (for motors, part no. 602-2424C-500 - spec). It is 18 gage, 4 wire with a foil shield and a drain wire. Prices have gone up to about $.75 per foot plus shipping. It was about $.50 a year ago.
I buy it in 500' reels and I sell it to my customers at $1.00 per ft plus $8.60 shipping in the US.
Robert Colin Campbell
Bob Campbell Designs
www.Campbelldesigns.net" |
David Smith
Registered
Username: Coolmoon
Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 06:45 am: |
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Gerald,
glad to see you found a cost efective solution for the states, as for me I have already place my order.
Would I have bought what you have found yes, do I regret buying what I did no. I don't know anyone
that has ever regreted buying quality.
Thanks
David |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1289
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 07:26 am: |
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David, I am not recommending the Alpha/Mouser/Bob Campbell option, merely quoting it. That wire is not rated for continuous flexing - Mouser lists it in their catalog as "Communication and Control Cable". Sure, it is going to work for a lot of guys, but it will stop working looong before yours does. 
Cables for continuous flex all have braided screens, which are more expensive to produce than simply wrapping a foil tape around the inner cores. The foil tape is the weak point for flexing - it eventually cracks into flakes (or the metal rubs off the Mylar) and the screen effect is lost. Snag is, one starts to get intermittent interference problems when the cable breaks down. The photos above show how to finish the ends of a cable with Mylar foil screen.
The risk to the driver is actually not more than with a braided screen cable. To assess the quality/flexibility of the inner cores, one has to look at how fine the copper strands are. Today's Gecko 203V driver is supposed to tolerate a wire break much better than the earlier versions, so it might be possible to consider cheaper cables these days? (Most drivers used to blow when a cable got broken). |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1304
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 06:56 pm: |
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I've just remembered how I actually found the economical cables.....phoned around an asked for the "simplest/cheapest braided screen cable that you have - not aluminium or Mylar foil - proper braid" |
Håvard
Registered
Username: Soulvoid
Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 11:41 pm: |
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Will LAPP ÖLFLEX-CLASSIC-110CY do?
Unfortunatly it costs €4.40 pr. meter for 4 lead .75mm and €6.97 for 1.5mm (1mm not available) 'locally' (from Sweden) + taxes and shipping... |
Håvard
Registered
Username: Soulvoid
Post Number: 24
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 12:20 am: |
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Will something like this work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cable-22-AWG-4-Conductor-PVC-Jacket-Shielded-100-ft_W0QQitem Z190068050312QQihZ009QQcategoryZ4667QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1343
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 11:24 am: |
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I need to get home before I can answer your question properly - the internet in this hotel is pretty bad. |
Håvard
Registered
Username: Soulvoid
Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 10:14 am: |
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Hi,
I feel a bit stupid to have jumped right in here. I did not realize that the cables get thinner when the AWG increases... Who came up with those units anyway? I'd like to tell them a little something. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1345
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 07:40 pm: |
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I am sitting at Johannesburg airport right now, due to a lot of bungling by Delta airlines - I believe that Delta is run by the same people that give bigger numbers to smaller wires  |
Håvard
Registered
Username: Soulvoid
Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 08:22 pm: |
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Airports are such great fun... Always have a few books with you when airports are involved.
Anyway, isn't the cables for the steppers a bit overkill? 1.5mm^2 is used here for 10A 220V electrical (2200W). On the steppers you have 300VA powersupply split on four steppers which are then split into four wires (Or 2A 70V on each motor max(140VA)) and you are still using 1.0mm^2 on each wire. I don't know how the power is distributed on those four wires but somehow I doubt they are all running 2A continuous.
Anyone thought on how long those none braided alu foil shielded cables are going to last? Are we talking months or year of continuous use? |
Frank D
Registered
Username: Pamarine
Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 08:56 pm: |
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An FYI for anybody that cares, lol. AWG sizing has to do with the number of passes through the dies to get the wire. For example, 0 wire requires less draws that 30 AWG. (Think Solid wire here). Most AWG stranded wire is made using 26-30AWG strands. The result is building a stranded wire to the nominal gage's area in circular mil. Also, for gages 5-14, the wire gauge is effectively the number of bare solid wires that, when placed side by side, span 1 inch. In other words, 8 AWG is roughly 1/8" in dia.
And airplanes are a blast, so much so that I stopped flying commercial and bought my own (I loathe US Airlines, no concept of service anymore). |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1347
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 09:53 am: |
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Håvard, The recommended motor wire size of 1.0mm2 is based on the fact that the Gecko 200 series drivers are capable of 7 Amps each. You could use a thinner wire for 2 Amp motors, but the price does not come down so much.
Another place to search for cables is with the guys in the music and sound reproduction industry - even people doing high quality home installations. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1354
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 05:48 pm: |
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 |
Håvard
Registered
Username: Soulvoid
Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 08:02 pm: |
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Will try some different sources for cable. If you pay $1.65 for a meter, I should be able to find something that cost less $10 for a meter which is the best price I've found so far. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1357
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 08:24 pm: |
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My wife and I are planning to visit your country in June next year - should we bring some cable? |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1358
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 08:29 pm: |
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Have you tried this company?:
http://www.miltronic.no/ |
60. Cable Management & Wiring