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Gerald_D
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Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 295
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 13, 2006 - 01:22 pm: | 
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To build your own machine, you are going to need to do some shopping. Here is a summary of the major expense, or "tricky", items that you need to find a supplier for.....
Gear pinions and racks info moved to this thread
V-Rollers from BWC, Yitong, Hepco, or "home-made"
Stepper motors from Oriental Motor (Japan) PK Series 2-Phase Stepping Motor, 12.7mm [0.5"] diam output shaft, square body.....
Alternatives: 3men, Keling?
Stepper and servo motor types: MCG
Driver (amplifiers) from Geckodrive (USA)
Parallel breakout card thread from PMDX (USA)
Spindle from either Fimec, HSD, Elte, Colombo (Italy)
Variable Frequency Drive from Delta (Taiwan)
Electrics enclosures AutomationDirect, Hubbell/Wiegmann, Nema-Enclosures.CC, Rittal
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fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 03:12 am: |
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Can you let me have a completed list of components including prices and a list of suppliers to buld a complete 8'x4' machine. It is preffered to have part numbers as well. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 330
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 08:03 am: |
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What about bolts, nuts, washers, electrical wires, connectors, transformers, relays, fans, gears, pushbutton switches, box for electrics, springs, rectifiers, capacitors, screws, proximity switches, glue, epoxy, wood for table top, etc., etc.? |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 09:17 am: |
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Other than the gears the rest could be purchased locally provided the correct specs are available. |
vadeem
Registered
Username: Vid1900
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 09:08 pm: |
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I found these v-wheel suppliers in the USA:
http://www.iptech1.com/IP_Tech_Catalog/resources/dualvee.pdf the v-wheels, and track. track is available in up to 20' lengths. look at the wheel covers too, they could wipe dust off the track.
http://www.bwc.com/products/dual-vee.html
I'm looking for a USA rack and pinion supplier. www.sdp-si.com has 16 TPI (I'm assuming thats what we want), but only in stainless = $$$$ |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 332
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 09:38 pm: |
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For V-Wheels, you can look at Yitong (they have USA stockists), or the Bishop-WiseCarver (BWC) that you have listed. You need size 3 for the MechMate (bigger than ShopBot). Dual-Vee comes from Hepco as well. Or, you can make your own wheels - link
For Rails, the Mechmate does not use ready-made rails. The ready-made rails from BWC/Hepco are flimsy and need to be screwed to a fairly precision surface to hold them in a straight line. If one is going to the trouble of making a precision bed for a flimsy rail, that bed may as well become the rail itself. This discussion can be pursued here.
Gear pinions and racks info moved to this thread |
vadeem
Registered
Username: Vid1900
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 01:05 am: |
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Thanks Gerald for the fast response! You have got 3 more guys here in the USA, all building from your plans, and chomping at the bit for more. Even the guy at the laser cutting shop is thinking of building a mechmate as a second machine, once he saw the plans. |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 05:32 am: |
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I am monitoring your responses to Vadeems mail. I too could purchase this stuff from U.S.A. It is not a problenm to source from U.S.A.unless you know of a good source in the Asian Region such as Singapore. Out of the manufacturers that you have recomended above can you let me know the guys who do the best quality stuff and the relavant part numbers. For stepper motors, drivers controllers etc what will be your recomendations. I have already started on the table. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 333
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 07:10 am: |
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Fabrica, in your honour I posted this thread on motor selection yesterday. That contains the stepper motor & driver suggestions. You need to be reading across the whole Forum, and the buttons at the top for Last 1 | 3 | 7 days will help you a lot.
Vadeem, and the other eager builders, the sample plans you have seen to date are very far from complete. There will be a heck of a lot more drawing sheets and a much better WBS spreadsheet that will answer a lot of questions that I am now getting by mail. I realise now that producing drawings for other people is ten times more work than doing drawings for myself! So far over 250 people from 30 countries have registered to download data, and the split seems to be about 50/50 for millimeter and inches. Whereas I started off only in millimeter, I am now trying harder to accommodate the inch people.
(Vadeem, I also appreciate you posting links to direct info - thanks!) |
vadeem
Registered
Username: Vid1900
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 08:50 pm: |
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Gerald,
With more drawings to come, is it safe to have the car plans laser cut, or should we wait?
And if we cut the metric car plans, will they still fit the inch plans for the rest of the mech?
I'd hate to pay to have the parts cut out and find that the design has not been finalized. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 340
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 09:42 pm: |
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Vadeem, the laser drawings you have already downloaded are exactly the same ones I used for the first MechMate - I have high confidence in them. But, I live in a metric country and I have no experience of how the subtle difference material sizes will affect you. Eg. we have 100x50 rectangular tube, you have 4"x2" - so your tubes are 1.6% bigger than ours. I don't think it is a problem, but I won't know until someone has actually tried it.
In the next couple of hours I will post a lot of drawings. You are going to see small changes to the laser cuts already, but they are really small (removed surplus holes, added some that can easily be drilled). If you really study and check the drawings, you should be able to get your own confidence without just taking my word for it.  |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 03:01 pm: |
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Gerald, Do you have in mind any U.S.A suppliers for the Motor spring and the Prox switches. I am trying to get my friend in U.S.A to purchase all required components and once everything is purchased I will get my shipper in U.S.A. to collect the stuff from his place and get it air freighted to Sri Lanka. Tomorrow I will start working on the Y car. As I have observed elseware in this forum, that would be the best part to start with. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 379
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 04:38 pm: |
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For the motor springs, the McMaster-Carr 9654K324 looks the best I've seen quickly. Let me look some more....
For the proxies, I must admit that I am not using any at all. And I am having difficulty to see how they can be connected in series in a practical failsafe way. We rely on the "soft-limits" in the Mach software to know when the cars are near the end of the rails. Although I have target holes in the rails, I really don't know yet what the best proxy will be.
What are you doing for a control box? Buying ready-made or building your own? |
vadeem
Registered
Username: Vid1900
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 02:03 am: |
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I was thinking of ending the rack just before the "hard stops" so the motors could just spin harmlessly if things do get out of control. |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 03:02 am: |
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Ok we will forget about the prox switches for the moment. What do you think of Vadeems suggestion sounds practical to me. Regarding the control box I will get it done locally. I have already located a coil. The rest of the stuff for the box should be available locally.
proxy discussion moved here |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 06:50 am: |
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I sent a mail to Yitong requesting for prices for V rollers. Below given is the response that I received from these guys.
Thanks for your inquiry.
>
> I am glad to contact with you, the normal prices we quota is based on the quantity of the
> 1000pcs, so for your inquiry of the YTG W3X, the price is USD 5,74.
>
> But if you need is only 5 pieces, the price will be 5 times, that is USD28,67.
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> We also can do the rail, so if you are interested, you also can buy from us.
>
>
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> Thanks for your attention.
>
>
>
> Waiting for your further discussion.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Frank Hu
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YITONG INDUSTRY (NINGBO) CO., LTD.
> Tel:+86 574 8630 2585 Fax:+86 574 8630 3168
> http://www.yi-tong.com Email:market04@yi-tong.com |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 382
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 07:10 am: |
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"I was thinking of ending the rack just before the "hard stops" so the motors could just spin harmlessly if things do get out of control."
That is very drastic!
In real life the problem is not that serious. When you jam a stepper motor (like against a hard stop) it loses steps, or slips, internally. This is magnetic slip, not mechanical. No damage is done. You hear a loud pulsing noise, but there is no problem if it happens for a short time (before the motor gets hot). Your idea will be bad because the gear pinion will chew on the end of the rack and cause mechanical damage.
With the proxy switches, it is easy to connect them to switch off the power if the cars move too far. My problem was to find a way to connect proxy's to tell the PC that it must do a gentle stop and not lose its position in memory. (the cheap click/click type switches can easily be connected, but they are not so well sealed against sawdust)
proxy discussion moved here |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 19
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 03:17 am: |
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Gerald What do you think of the Yitong offer which I have copied above. They have agreed to do the Rail as well. Maybe we could get them to do a rail as per Mechmate specs and get them to offer our guys a special price. If you are agreeable to this you could post the specs on this thread so that I could immedietly convey them to the manufacturer and get them to quote a price. |
vadeem
Registered
Username: Vid1900
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 04:11 am: |
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We should do a "group buy" on the wheels, as those would be easy to ship, and everybody needs them.
How would we safely ship 10 or 12 foot rails? |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 20
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 04:21 am: |
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Yes good idea Vadeem. Somebody in this forum could make some money by stocking these items. Specially when you think of the margins one can keep. Even at US $ 28 which they quote for one piece they are almost one third of the price that competition is quoting.
To ship rails safely wood crates should do a good job. I am waiting for Gerald to give me the specs so that I could have a serious discussion with the Yitong guy. |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 05:40 am: |
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Below given is the latest reply I received from Yitong.
Sorry for my delayed answer.
For the YTG W3 guide wheel, the normal prices we quota is based on the
quantity of the 1000pcs, so for your inquiry of the YTG W3X, the price is USD 5,74.
But for your 100pcs, the price is USD11,48
Regarding the rail, we are still in the calculation of the cost, our engineer suggest
that is possible you can still use the profile of the BWC design. If use your design,
we need to develop the model, and you should pay the mold cost which will increase
you cost.
What do you guys think.
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Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 420
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 07:04 am: |
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Fabrica, on the rails, I don't believe that Yitong is a willing partner that will undertake any expense for a new product line. They apparently are only willing to copy what other companies sell already. There is no way that I pay any company for mold/tool costs unless that mold/tool is under my control - in other words, checking that extra parts are not made from tools that I paid for.
Frankly and unfortunately, I believe the MechMate group is still too small to get into bulk buys and joint tooling costs. However, if suppliers want to take the initiative to help us, I will give them good advertising here.
On the router issue, I would dearly like to try the Porter Cable and Milwaukee routers, but they are not available here. The big Makita 3612C is popular in the 220/230V countries. We have run one quite hard and have to change bearings maybe once a year. (The handles are removed to fit in the MechMate car.) |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 30
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 01:33 pm: |
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Does anybody know the contact details of the YITONG stockist in U.S.A. Do they stock the size 3 roller. What is the price that they are quoting.
Rail discussion moved here |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 02:38 pm: |
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CNC laser cutting machines are almost non existant in this country. I contacted several machine shops who have CNC milling machines. They have quoted around US $ 600 for all components which have to be CNC cut. The steel to be supplied by me. How does this pricing compare with the pricing other guys in this forum have got from their CNC laser shops. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 482
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 03:10 pm: |
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We have a problem....... I thought CNC laser would be fairly common.
A complete set of parts would cost me under $100 to cut (and bend) over here. Prices in Europe & Singapore should be much the same. Is it viable for you to import a set (you should be familiar with import costs)?
Snag is, those parts are designed to be laser (or waterjet) cut, based on the economy of it. If I had known you would be using an expensive process, the design would have been different to make it more economical.
However, you must also see the good news in the fact that your country has no CNC laser cutting - it is not going to have CNC routing either, and you will be the first! |
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