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Message |
    
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 806
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 02, 2007 - 07:00 am: | 
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A discussion specific to Motionking is overwhelming the general motor selection thread - here is thread just for Motionking..... |
Bob Cole
Registered
Username: Bob_cole
Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 03:02 am: |
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This is a note to Kim:
Regarding the MotionKing 34HS9803 motors. Have you ordered these yet? If not would you be interested in ordering more motors in order to get the price down? perhaps making a larger order we could reduce the shipping charges as well. I might be interested in four of these torque monsters myself.
Bob C. |
Kim Mortensen
Registered
Username: Inwonder
Post Number: 37
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 08:44 am: |
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To Gerald...
I have just recieved my second email from motionking. The price for that version of their stepper is a meer $42 a pc... This is just getting better and better... For a price of $366 I can have 4 steppers delivered right to my doorstep.
This is extremely cheap.
And to Bob, I can see you live in the states, I live in little old Denmark in Europe so this would be of little help to you if I buy some home of these... The shipping costs from Denmark is not that much smaller than the one you would get when you order them yourself... Sorry
Ohhh, by the way guys, have you noticed that the price for the machine just went down $434 for me by buying these steppers instead of the Oriental ones... :-)
Kim |
Mike Richards
Registered
Username: Richards
Post Number: 37
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 04:04 pm: |
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I'm not trying to speak against Motionking, since I have no experience with their motors. However, I have found a great deal of difference between other brands of motors. In my experience, Oriental Motors makes an excellent, high quality motor that works very well with Gecko stepper drivers. Some other brands work, but not nearly as smoothly.
Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison? |
Kim Mortensen
Registered
Username: Inwonder
Post Number: 39
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 05:20 pm: |
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I don't think anyone has tested them side by side. but I'll let you all know how they look, feel and most importantly drives when I have them installed later this year...
Has anyone consulted with geckodrive if they have tested the motors from motionking.??? |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 801
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 05:51 pm: |
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Yes, 5 minutes ago :-)
Here is a previous report on a Chinese motor by Geckodrives: http://s120220635.onlinehome.us/stepper-motors.asp |
Kim Mortensen
Registered
Username: Inwonder
Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 05:57 pm: |
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Gerald. I have also asked Geckodrive that very same question.. hehe
So We will se what Mariss comes up with of answers....
But the report there shows good quality already from china.. Looking forward to getting hiw answer soon... |
Kim Mortensen
Registered
Username: Inwonder
Post Number: 41
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 05:21 am: |
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Ok, it seems like the Chinese people can't use a calculator... The Final price for 4 steppers and P&P is $408 to Denmark. But stille way cheaper than 4 Orientals... Actualle more than $400 +P&P Cheaper..... So it's cuite a saving on these.
I have gotten an E-mail from Mariss though, he seems to think it would be the wrong one for the gecko..
He would rather use the 34HS9801 or the 34HS9802 instead...
I don't think this would have any impact on the Mechmate as the Holding torque is the same. But what do you think Gerald..??? |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 802
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 06:45 am: |
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Hey, I really don't know anything about stepper motors - go with what Mariss is advising you. |
John Fredriksen
Registered
Username: Frederj
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 03:43 pm: |
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FYI on prices to the USA.
FOB Shanghai prices of 34HS5803 are as below:
$57.00/pcs, if qty is less than 10pcs/lot.
$55.00/pcs, if qty is 11-50pcs/lot.
$53.50/pcs, if qty is 51-100pcs/lot.
If you want to order 4pcs, then the cost is listed as below:
34HS5803, $57.00/pcs, 4pcs -------------- $228.00
TNT Express Cost ----------------------------- $380.00
Total ------------------------------------------------- $608.00 |
Bob Cole
Registered
Username: Bob_cole
Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 09:51 pm: |
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I got a similar responce from MotionKing regarding the shipping cost and prices on motors. Is anyone aware of a LESS EXPENSIVE way to get motors to the US? I am ready and willing to be a redistibution point if we could get a decent order for motors together. I would be willing to purchase 8 motors of the 34HS9803 variety myself to kick this off. Similar to the way the laser cut parts where set up. If anyone is interested let's get going.
Regards, Bob C |
Bob Cole
Registered
Username: Bob_cole
Post Number: 26
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 10:34 pm: |
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Just another thought on the motor purchase options. What if we placed ONE large order {all motors prepaid through myself or someone who would be willing} and had MotorKing make arrangements for drop shipping each order to the respective U.S.A. location? I am sure with a respectable order they might be inclined to help work out the shipping details. Another option, rather than air shipping, perhaps they could send by ship freight to a West coast secondary shipping location. Like UPS, or DHL and if MotorKing had smaller parcels pre labled inside of a larger container, then the secondary shipper could open the container, and distribute the pre labeled packages?
Would that work?
Bob C. |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 250
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 02, 2007 - 05:24 am: |
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Have you people checked the Air Freight charges from China to U.S.A. It cannot amount to more than US 3.00 per Kg. The shipment time cannot be more than 3 days. Also check the EMS rates (US Postal).
Below given is the link to China EMS service. Get Motionking to follow details in this link.
http://220.194.34.2/ems/English/fw15.jsp |
John Fredriksen
Registered
Username: Frederj
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 02, 2007 - 05:13 pm: |
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I got a quote for low priority air from UPS for $280 for 20Kg
For my application I am leaning strongly towards the OM 3.6 When I am ready to order motors, if the Motionkings have passed Mechmate testing, I would be tempted |
Hugo Carradini
Registered
Username: Hugotel
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 03:15 am: |
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In case I decide to go for the Motionking 34HS9801 then ¿Wat would it be the more affordable option for my power supply? ¿3 separate transformer? Any comment will be appreciate.
By the way, Motionking people respond very quick to questions. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 814
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 03:29 am: |
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Hugo the power supply does not drive the motor directly. You need a "drive" or "driver" between the power supply and the motor. I have been recommending Gecko 202 drivers, but others are also possible. Somebody thought of MotionKing drivers which need a different power supply to Geckos.
So, to answer your question correctly, you need to tell me which drivers you plan to use for your MotionKing motors.
Yes, I understand that the MotionKing sales people are very quick - how fast are the support people?  |
Hugo Carradini
Registered
Username: Hugotel
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 03:41 am: |
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Gerald I want to use the Vampire from Geckos .
And you are right. Selling is ease but suporting......another story |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 816
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 07:23 am: |
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Then the answer to your question is easy, only 1 (one) power supply to drive all four "Vampires" (Geckodrives G203V).
The 34HS9801 motor current (and therefore heating) is higher than what I am used to. You need to calculate the power supply size (I guess 500VA) |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 817
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 07:24 am: |
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Part of data sheet:
 |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 818
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 08:56 am: |
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To find the rated Voltage rating of these motors, multiply the Resistance by the rated Current...
The 34HS9801 has a rated voltage of 4.0 X 0.98 = 3.9V
The 34HS9802 has a rated voltage of 5.0 X 0.55 = 2.75V
But, those are the UNIpolar ratings. These are 8-wire motors, so you can wire them:
- UNIpolar (use half the motor)
- BIpolar series (UNIvoltage X 1.4 and UNIcurrent ÷ 1.4)
- BIpolar parallel(UNIvoltage ÷ 1.4 and UNIcurrent X 1.4)
Makes you go crazy! Nobody agrees on the best way to connect them for a CNC router - it depends on how fast the motor has to work. But for a router, the motors have to work fast and slow, so I end up with the middle choice, UNIpolar. That means you only connect 4 of the 8 wires. The wiring is easier, and you know you have a second chance if you burn half the motor!  |
Hugo Carradini
Registered
Username: Hugotel
Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 12:08 am: |
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Gerald I hate to sound like a fool ,but for me the electronics is like French , just know few words, does not mean I wont learn but know I need to know what to buy. I will go just like your design goes except for the motors. I will use the 34HS9801 unipolar mode. ¿Can you please tell me what transformer, capacitor and rectifier I need to get this going properly? I will have a French teacher (technician) taking care i don't blow up in the process.
Thanks for yor invaluable time. |
Hugo Carradini
Registered
Username: Hugotel
Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 01:21 am: |
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Sorry I was to exited I guess and didn't read carefully your answer before.
Regards |
Hugo Carradini
Registered
Username: Hugotel
Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 04:37 am: |
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KL- 3815 $129
Unregulated Power Supply, 500 W, 38VDC/15A, 120VAC or 230VAC
This unit includes 500VA toroidal transformer, 2 of 10000uF 40V capacitors,
25A 600V bridge rectify, and chassis
Note: The transformer is CE certified
I think I am going for this option. Is sell by http://www.kelinginc.net/SwitchingPowerSupply.html |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 825
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 07:13 am: |
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Hi Hugo, you are not sounding like a fool at all! You are thinking about this very carefully, until late into the night. I am impressed!
The 500VA sounds okay, but I am a bit worried about the 38V. Most people seem to go for 50V or more.
However, you must understand that my experience on this is very low. Please ask some more people and get more opinions. (I will agree that you have selected the best option from Keling, but maybe there are other suppliers - your French technician should be able to build one from basics, but be careful of the French flair for "Viva la difference!" ) |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 826
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 09:24 am: |
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I am starting to wonder why the 34HS980* motors are produced with 3 current ratings all producing the same holding torque....? My experience is with a motor of the similar size (millimeters) and holding torque, but only needing 2 Amp. That is why I can use a 300VA power supply at 75V. Mariss has suggested the higher current versions and I guess the only reason for this is that such motors can produce higher torque at higher speeds. Higher current means bigger power supplies and more heat. Somewhere we have to find a balance...... (It will be useful to see graphs of speed vs. torque for the MotionKing motors)
I think my "small" 2 Amp motors were selected in the year 2000 when 2 Amp drivers were available at good prices. At that time there were no economical drivers above 2 Amp. Mariss (and others) have changed that situation to make bigger drivers available and they promote to use higher current motors, which will give benefits (torque at high speed) and negatives (bigger power supply, more heat). |
Hugo Carradini
Registered
Username: Hugotel
Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 10:28 pm: |
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Gerald I am going to something bigger because a had and Engineer analyze my motors and he suggested transformer 970 VA 43 VAC so I decide to go for
KL- 6515 Specification: $199/pcs
Unregulated Power Supply 1000W, 65VDC/15A , Input: 120VAC or 230VAC,
Open Flame Construction
there are 2 regulated outputs 5Vdc and 12Vdc at 1A.
1pcs 1000VA toroid transformer, 2 of 10000uF 80V capacitors, 25A 600V
bridge rectify, 5V and 12V at 1A regulator board
Note: The transformer is CE certified http://www.kelinginc.net/SwitchingPowerSupply.html
It is already ensambled and with the money I am going to earn......no problem.
And you are right, I spend a lot off time, this is a real addiction jaja.
Regards |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 831
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 07:30 am: |
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Hugo, that is a much safer choice for the high-amperage motors. I am really hoping that when you cut wood you won't need all that much power. In fact, you should not need so much power unless you are driving a very big cutter at very high speed through very thick wood!
Most of the ShopBot guys have 1 to 2 Amp motors and 300VA power supplies. The danger of installing too much power is heat. We have to remove heat in a place where we have lots of dirt in the air. On my MechMate I have been very successful with a completely sealed control box that does not need to breathe air from the outside - that concept (and box size) will probably be okay up to 500VA. But for 1000VA you will neither either a bigger box or start breathing air through the box (filters + maintenance).
When you have everything running, you will have the luxury of being able to set lower currents and tell us if you are still cutting wood okay. We will all learn from this and possibly select smaller power supplies.
(The Keling guys have a small spelling mistake: open-flame should be open-frame. We don't want open-flames! ) |
Hugo Carradini
Registered
Username: Hugotel
Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 02:09 am: |
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Gerald I am glad for your advise. I have being thinking that will be a mistake doing something different with my first machine. I am planing in having success in this first project sow I guess I will make the experiments in the second machine. What I really want to begin with is a machine to work properly making cabinets and basic furniture using MDF and similar materials at a decent speed with a decent finish, sow I will keep the basics just as they are . I will be in the list waiting for some one else tell us his experience with bigger motors.
Saludos |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 835
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 06:48 am: |
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Hugo, what type of "cutter" are you planning to put in your first machine?
-1. Router (Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, etc.), or
-2. Spindle (Colombo, Perske, Fimec, HSD, etc.)? |
Hugo Carradini
Registered
Username: Hugotel
Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 08:21 pm: |
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I been reading you seem to have a preference for Milwukee when people talk about routers so I migth go for that one unless you have a diferent sugestion. I would like to use a spindle but semms to be more complicate to put toguether¿What do you think about that? |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 839
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 09:01 pm: |
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The reason I mention routers or spindles in this thread is because there is no sense in using massive motors for the axes when the cutting motor is small. Also, the most popular cutter for cutting shapes out of boards is about 10mm in diameter - if you push that too hard/fast it breaks.
Would suggest you start with a router, but that is a subject for another thread . |
reza forushani
Registered
Username: Reza
Post Number: 14
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 06:16 am: |
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Gerald
Are you now recommending these motors - MotionKing? |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 845
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 06:23 am: |
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No, I am neutral about MotionKing motors and not recommending them yet. They need to be tested and proved first. |
Hugo Carradini
Registered
Username: Hugotel
Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 04:13 am: |
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Because I don't want to to take chances with my first baby I have been looking for a Kit and I thinks this will work with the Oriental Motors ¿Right?
KL- 3815 $129
Unregulated Power Supply, 500 W, 38VDC/15A, 120VAC or 230VAC
This unit includes 500VA toroidal transformer, 2 of 10000uF 40V capacitors,
25A 600V bridge rectify, and chassis |
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